HBP thoughts three months later.
Sep. 29th, 2005 07:10 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
What will my reaction be to Half-Blood Prince after the last book?
I still feel like the series peaked at OotP for me. Every volume has felt better than the last except for this last one--I'm still wigged that anyone, Rowling included, believes that Snape's motives are ambiguous, justifying leaving Harry in suspense at the conclusion of this book. I found Harry and Dumbledore's pensieve jaunts puzzlingly expository, and was waiting--am still waiting--to find out what was going on during those. Tom Riddle's history could have been related in two pages; what the heck happened in those pensieve jaunts that made them so crucial? I want there to have been more motivation on Dumbledore's part than exposition, or the idea that Harry had to see those moments for himself to gain understanding of Voldemort and of himself. It's not enough.
I loved the main plot of the book, the main plot being the Half-Blood Prince. Did I know who it was? Hell, no. The concept that "Prince" was a last name never crossed my mind--even when Hermione brought it up I couldn't see how that fit in. I didn't get it until I saw the chapter title "Flight of the Prince."
But I still believed that Slughorn gave him that book deliberately. Bah.
Will the last book draw it all back together for me? Will those unanswered questions finally fall into place? Or will I be happier admitting that HBP was the weak moment in the series for me and let it be?
I still feel like the series peaked at OotP for me. Every volume has felt better than the last except for this last one--I'm still wigged that anyone, Rowling included, believes that Snape's motives are ambiguous, justifying leaving Harry in suspense at the conclusion of this book. I found Harry and Dumbledore's pensieve jaunts puzzlingly expository, and was waiting--am still waiting--to find out what was going on during those. Tom Riddle's history could have been related in two pages; what the heck happened in those pensieve jaunts that made them so crucial? I want there to have been more motivation on Dumbledore's part than exposition, or the idea that Harry had to see those moments for himself to gain understanding of Voldemort and of himself. It's not enough.
I loved the main plot of the book, the main plot being the Half-Blood Prince. Did I know who it was? Hell, no. The concept that "Prince" was a last name never crossed my mind--even when Hermione brought it up I couldn't see how that fit in. I didn't get it until I saw the chapter title "Flight of the Prince."
But I still believed that Slughorn gave him that book deliberately. Bah.
Will the last book draw it all back together for me? Will those unanswered questions finally fall into place? Or will I be happier admitting that HBP was the weak moment in the series for me and let it be?
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Date: 2005-09-29 11:24 am (UTC)The main feeling is that this was meant to be a 'postOtTp' and 'pre-7th book' book, with no real "personality" on its own. A lot of things happened of course, but more things remained held over. I hope the last book will make up for this!
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Date: 2005-09-29 11:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-29 11:25 am (UTC)And as for Snape...we'll see. I hope you're right!
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Date: 2005-09-29 11:30 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2005-09-29 11:36 am (UTC)In truth I am quite worried about the next book. She's created quite a complex story, even it started as a 'children's' and I only wish that she has the ability to wrap it up good and solid in the last book.
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Date: 2005-09-29 11:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-29 11:43 am (UTC)I only read HBP once, and I'm going to keep it that way for now - partly because like yourself, I had a lot of questions and part where I went WTF?!, but I want to let my 'feel' for it settle before I go back and start picking. Mostly - well, remember that chapter you looked over a long time ago? My poor little fic is way AU now, and I want to finish it before reading HBP again.
I bring this up, only to say that I finally went and started doing a final rewrite and edit, and read over all your notes again. It will never be outstanding, but your insights and suggestions sit well with the months of reading and writing HP slash I now have under my belt, and I'm finding it interesting to rework it into something I may not be too ashamed to publish.
Long winded as I always am, I guess what I'm saying is - Thanks!
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Date: 2005-09-29 11:51 am (UTC)I cling to your theory about the clues to the horcruxes. Please please please. (Of course, then I will have to say, "But why didn't Dumbledore just TELL him about the clues?" And hope that can be answered too.)
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Date: 2005-09-29 12:20 pm (UTC)The bad thing about fanfiction is that it gives you a thirst for character driven plots and a distaste for plot driven characters.
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Date: 2005-09-29 11:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-29 12:51 pm (UTC)But I mostly blame the increased number and seriousness of the distractions that have piled up in her life since PoA came out: Movie deals, new spouse/babies, and most of all the horrible and prolonged nuisance lawsuit by Nancy Stouffer, which got zapped only after it was proved that Stouffer forged her "evidence". (It was no coincidence that JKR announced that she'd finally finished OoP a few weeks after Stouffer's suit was laughed out of court for good.)
As for HBP -- silly title and plot revelations aside -- I think that it's nearly up there with PoA, the best book of the series to date. There's none of the "oh, I'm just writing this because I felt I had to write something" vibe that is all over OoP. It was much, much tighter, and had scenes of sheer beauty. (The whole of Chapter Two, for instance.)
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Date: 2005-09-29 05:24 pm (UTC)And of course, Stephen King, whose latest books out-bloat even Rowling's.
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Date: 2005-09-29 12:55 pm (UTC)That being said, it's also difficult to look at HBP with what I wish had been in there (Harry and company dealing with Sirius's death).
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Date: 2005-09-30 12:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-29 01:02 pm (UTC)That is precisely what I shall be arguing during the Snape panel at Witching Hour. And I have excellent reasons for drawing such a conclusion... For the most part, metaphysical ones. He is not an ambiguous character, anymore than say, Harry Potter (for instance, why does Harry find it odd that Snape is not "upset" by Mundungus Fletcher's arrest? Why does this make Snape "ambiguous?" re: "Mundungus and Snape are supposed to be on the same side." This is the very same Harry Potter who was quite willing to rip Fletcher's head off earlier in the book, and for the same exact reasons that Snape condemns him. Yet no one asks themselves, "Wait... Could Harry be a traitor to the cause?"
But I am getting ahead of myself, as usual ;-) I shall post my little text on my journal after the convention is over.
Wish me luck, most beloved. I am hoping that the fact I shall be sitting there in the robes will make my arguments even more convincing ;-)
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Date: 2005-09-30 12:17 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2005-09-29 01:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-30 12:21 am (UTC)No, nor have I! She's kept me going this far, certainly, and I still expect something bang-up at the end, even if it doesn't leave me saying, "Eeee, THAT'S what was going on in the last book!"
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1. Harry, Hermione, and Dumbledore all become less annoying in HBP. Yay!
2. The "Draco lets in the Death Eaters via Vanishing Cabinet" plot, while rather convoluted, wasn't nearly as lame as the Prophecy. Yay!
3. Dark Lord backstory! Yay! (You might want the Pensieve jaunts condensed to two pages, but some Riddlefans are wishing there were even more flashbacks. Really.)
4. Almost no Grawp. Yay!
5. Blaise Zabini speaks! Aragog dies! Slughorn gives us another sub-genre of Slytherin! Yay!
6. Inferi! Non-verbal spells! Horcruxes! Probity Probes! Yay!
7. H/G and R/Hr are mercifully brief, and cause vast amounts of entertaining kerfuffles all over the fandom. *passes popcorn* Yay!
Yes, lack of Sirius discussion is disappointing, the Remus/Tonks is a total facepalm, and there are hundreds of FF.net writers hurling abuse at "Snape, the filthy traitor!" But that doesn't make HBP feel worse than OotP for me. I enjoyed HBP a lot on the first read, and still do.
Snapefan though I am... It's not All About Snape. It's about Harry. Main conflict between Harry and Voldemort, not Harry and Snape. IMHO, that's explanation enough for devoting time to Dark Lord history exposition. This book is about Albus passing the Evil-Fighting baton to Harry. Snape is merely a means to an end, and that goes for Draco too.
P.S. Hey JKR, how's Lucius doing? *peers curiously at Azkaban*
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Date: 2005-09-29 03:12 pm (UTC)That's basically what I'm thinking, really. The reason I like HBP so much is because she did those scenes. She actually explained him. And, you know, he's fairly human, for the most part. Because dude, people get way more fucked up than that just purely on natural brain function.
I found it kind of neat, though, that she left Lucius in Azkaban. It showed something about the workings of the Death Eaters, and that's really rather neat.
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Date: 2005-09-29 01:31 pm (UTC)Of course a good portion of that could because of the hothothot Snape/Draco--*coughcoughcough*--er I mean the strengthening and multi-dimensionality of the Dynamic Slytherin Duo's characters and personalities. *nods sagely*
Seriously, I liked the developments; I was drawn in by the plot and the backstories and the new characters; I loved the ending; I scoff at the very idea that anyone would think my darlings are Teh Ebil.
Plus, as I was predicting Snape as the HBP for six months prior to the book's release and people sniggered at me, I feel vindicated. VINDICATED, I tell you. *grin*
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Date: 2005-09-30 12:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-29 01:50 pm (UTC)The trouble with me is that I relate to the books too emotionally. I have trouble judging the strength of the writing when I'm so involved in the story - in that sense, I'm probably JKR's ideal reader. :) I'd say that I love both books, but I thought HBP was the stronger of the two. I came out of HBP declaring it my favourite yet (well, after the crying), and I think that first reaction holds. However, I haven't been able to bring myself to re-read OotP in its entirety yet, and I'm going to need to do that in order to be able to judge it properly as a part of the whole. I love it, but it was just SO bleak, and I spent two days afterwards all numb and shellshocked. HBP felt positively cathartic in comparision.
In short, I agree with everything
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Date: 2005-09-30 12:48 am (UTC)Perhaps that's why I thought OotP was the more powerful text! I never expected Sirius's death; I never expected to see Harry so hornswoggled he'd mess up that badly. On the other hand I've been expecting Dumbledore to buy it for two-three books, and I saw the ending coming from so early on in HBP.
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Date: 2005-09-29 02:23 pm (UTC)Which is not to say that she doesn't turn a fancy phrase, 'cause she does. It's not things like her vocab or her sentence structure; all that's fantastic. (Though if someone could kill those elipses for me, I'd send them undying love and offer to have their babies.)
It's things like Grawp, or GoF!Rita Skeeter, or Lockhart. It's things like scenes I can't stand to read again. Sure, it's fun to have characters you love to hate, but to have characters that you hate so much that you can't bear to reread any scene they're in?
It's things like having plotholes so big that you can successfully hide the entire house of Sparklypoo for safekeeping in them. (Hey, we had to get rid of all those Sues somehow...) Things that we can catch on the first reading? Not good. Why she doesn't have a small team of fandom nitpickers working for her (hell, we'd pay her to do it!) is beyond me.
I like all the twists; they're fantastic. And I can understand why a lot of people would think that Snape's evil; they've just not analyzed the books to death and then taken out the dead-horse-stick to beat the books some more. I've argued it with a lot of non-fandomers, and when I pointed out even some of the simplest of arguments, you could just see the wheels turning in their head. "Heh. I never thought of it that way."
She drags things out to build suspense, and sometimes it works, and other times, you get penseive jaunts. Those drove me fricken' batty. And the Gaunts. Someone kill the Gaunts for me. She steals so much from fandom, she couldn't take the illustrious Marvolo line? I mean, WTF. But I digress. What was she thinking? Half the point of her books is that who you're born isn't who you become. The new message is: Who you're born isn't who you become, unless you're the villian that
a babyan eleven-year-old can beat. Just killherme now.</rant>
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Date: 2005-09-29 03:58 pm (UTC)Now, there are well realized takes on this notion, such as McTabby's. But they are well realized precisely because the author doesn't flinch at depicting the not-so-nice things that go along with the velvet brocade. And McTabby does not soft-pedal the reasons why her society was doomed by modernity -- much as the Muggle aristocracy of the same period was doomed -- and the influx of Muggle-borns, among other things.
So instead of drawing on fanfic images of Those Wonderfully Cultured and Elegant Purebloods, she gives us a vision straight out of H.P. Lovecraft. And she's not going to apologize for harshing anyone's mellow over this. Just as she wouldn't want anyone admiring Nazis for having such cool uniforms, she doesn't want people oohing and aahhing over pureblood murderers for their fashion sense.
The big irony of the House of Gaunt, of course, is that its most "illustrious" member, after Salazar Slytherin himself, is the half-blood Tom Marvolo Riddle, Jr. It took an infusion of the hated Muggle blood to restore the potency of the decayed blood of the House of Gaunt.
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Date: 2005-09-29 02:27 pm (UTC)We're so used to the high quality of some of our fanfic writers. Some of our writers are, yes, better than JKR is. It's a hushed over fact, but true. When you spend the intervening years digging for and reading fics of the highest calibre, you start to become disappointed with JKR's level, even if she's doing her best work.
At least, that's how it is for me.
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Date: 2005-09-30 01:06 am (UTC)true!
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Date: 2005-09-29 02:53 pm (UTC)I had the feeling that Dumbledore was trying to teach Harry how he was going to figure out the Horcruxes for himself. I think DD obviously knew he wasn't scheduled to be in Book 7 and knew Harry would be on his own so I'm not so sure that it was all exposition.
Also, I really don't think Rowling intended for anyone to believe Snape's motives to be ambiguous, the "don't call me coward" line pretty much explained his entire position, but I think I wanted to see it that way and Harry doesn't. He has never thought anything good of Snape, with good reason I admit, but he needs to come around on his own.
I think Slughorn did it on purpose too. Harry is to be the jewel in his crown, his ultimate Mary-Sue.
Personally, I loved this book more than I loved GoF and GoF is one of my all time favorite books, any genre. Mostly it was the rampant humor ("and the fifth group were Hufflepuffs") and snarky Harry. Most people love PoA to death, I'm sort of meh about it.
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Date: 2005-09-30 01:10 am (UTC)Harry is to be the jewel in his crown, his ultimate Mary-Sue. Is it okay that that makes me all aroused-shivery, that statement?
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Date: 2005-09-29 02:55 pm (UTC)Do I have criticisms -- of course. The book made me hate Hermione even more than OoTP had (and really that was TOUGH!), Ginny irritated the hell out of me -- OoTP had started to make me like her, and then HBP made me want to slug her. But overall, I felt like HBP was the only thing that could make me keep reading HP after OoTP CRUSHED MY SPIRIT.
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Date: 2005-09-30 01:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-29 06:29 pm (UTC)This will not likely be my favourite in the series when all is said in done, but what I loved about it (and what has been keeping me taking notes three months later and continuing to analyse the crap out of it) is its potentiality in terms of the threats that these characters will carry with them into Book Seven. Those moments when JKR teased out potentially horrific situations without building them to dramatic excess (the full extent of Snape's sacrifice, Lupin's implied relation to Greyback) made this book more engaging at times than any other book prior to it. If that makes this merely a transitional book in the series, fair enough, I'm willing to withhold judgement until Book Seven and just hope to hell that a lot of the juicy outcomes in my head end up being right ^_^
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Date: 2005-09-30 06:39 pm (UTC)I like everything you have to say here, actually. The book certainly has strength if we're wrangling over it like this, and if I'm feeling that I can't forgive it for being a transitional book--
You know what you just reminded me of? Star Wars. When the "which of the original Star Wars movies is your favorite?" question comes round and I choose the first, and am met with, "Wha? Not Empire?" I shrug, "I cannot forgive Empire for being an incomplete film." I never have been able to accept/forgive that.
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Date: 2005-09-29 06:38 pm (UTC)Although I'm a totaly loser at analysis and meta, I can't wait to yap about the books with you. But I can't guarantee that you'll get anything more from me than "Harry lurves and values Ron and Hermione, woohooooo!!" *G*
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Date: 2005-09-30 06:55 pm (UTC)I think that if she wanted to do that she'd have had to flesh out Harry's love interest waaaaay earlier in the series. Even if it had gone Harry/Cho--which would have been okay with me; I was feelin' it in OotP!--she couldn't have made it HarryRon&Hermione&Cho, could she have?
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Date: 2005-09-29 06:56 pm (UTC)If Harry _were_ told Dumbledore's reason for trusting Snape, then all Voldie (or any other skilled Legilimens among the DEs) would need to do is take one look at Harry, and Snape's cover would be blown wide open.
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Date: 2005-09-30 06:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2005-09-30 02:16 am (UTC)It's the reverse of Star Trek movies.
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Date: 2005-09-30 04:36 am (UTC)Here via Daily Snitch
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Date: 2005-09-30 04:34 am (UTC)Yay for the ultra talented fanfic authors! I'm forever in their debt.
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Date: 2005-09-30 07:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-30 05:21 am (UTC)But I still believed that Slughorn gave him that book deliberately.
And Ron could have ended up with that book instead!
Getting back to what I liked about HBP. I was unspoiled and I was completely blown away by the turn of events on the astronomy tower, nor did I guess the identity of the HBP and I consider myself a savvy reader, so I have to give credit where credit is due. JRK does spin quite a yarn and I admire the vision she had when she concocted this series.
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Date: 2005-09-30 07:23 pm (UTC)This is something I do keep coming back to--it's a hell of a series, even if some things fall flat for me. When people say, "Well, she's not a very good writer," or, "Well, she's not a good character author," or what have you, I can't nod with them--the series has its strengths and its flaws but, damn, it's a hell of a ride. That's enough for me to call her a good writer.
Man, I won't say that HBP blew chunks...
Date: 2005-09-30 06:46 am (UTC)But I've found that my appetite for fanfic decreased after HBP, because all actions by all personalities were accounted for (and also, I can't be getting all involved in the characters to just have my heart broken as they are reduced to a plot point)).
I'll be reading the seventh book out of intellectual curiousity, not necessarily because I'm dying to see what will happen, in the sense that I've invested all this time in a series, and I need to get some closure.
Re: Man, I won't say that HBP blew chunks...
Date: 2005-09-30 07:25 pm (UTC)