Avengers Deleted Scenes. Meta part two!

[amanuensis1]

Continuing my thoughts on the deleted scenes from The Avengers.

Scene #3: Steve Rogers
Why I'm glad they cut it:
-At first I thought maybe they shouldn't've! I might like to have seen this to give me a bit more bonding with Steve. Ultimately, though, it's a helluva mood killer. Steve's mired in his loss, the scenes are mostly quiet, escalate his loneliness even as they bring in more people, and grind the action to halt.
-Lingering on Peggy's dossier in that way (which is perfectly logical for him to do, and just as logical for Steve to decide "No") feels like it's setting the viewer up for follow-up on this. The lack of follow-up may be more realistic; Steve might decide never to contact Peggy and leave it at that, and similarly Peggy, when she gets wind of Cap's reemergence (because she will), may decide it's a wound best left untouched. But narratively it invites a callback and resolution of some sort.
-The connection with the waitress might be a little too...pat? The way it stood in the final cut, she's a little more "everywoman" than she is a plant for romance material.
Why it's still great to see it:
-Oh, Steve. His loneliness, his art skill, and us watching the connections between Steve and Tony carved out by way of what others say about them--the files on Starks Sr. and Jr., the reference to "the big guy." It makes Steve's "that big ugly building" comment both poignant and funny.
-And STAN.

Scenes #4 & #5: Alternate opening/ending
Why I'm glad they cut it:
-I like framing stories when they're done well. Do most of you know that The Taming of the Shrew has a framing story? You probably do, because you guys are well-read and awesome like that. You probably also know that it rarely gets staged, because most conclude that it's a distraction. It isn't even a complete framing story because Shakespeare himself recognized that the closing part of the frame wouldn't keep the audience in their seats past the Katherine-Petruchio smoochfest and he cut it. So, yeah: frames potentially good, but potentially tricky. Avengers-as-theatrical-release does have a framing story; the frame element is Fury, demonstrating why he thinks the Avengers are awesome. It works because we came to watch the Avengers be awesome, and that's what we're given. The Maria Hill framing story, though, is "why Nick Fury is awesome," and we didn't come for that; it diminishes the struggles of the Avengers as individuals and as a team. Plus, we've never met Maria Hill before this film; you can't put her front and center first thing like this and demand that we care about her. Viewers don't like that.
Why it's still great to see it:
-Ooh, the bits of foreshadowing were a nice thought, weren't they. Thor's hammer dripping blood--omigod, does Thor have to kill his brother after all?? The falling Iron Man mask--omigod, does Tony die??

Scene #6: Fury talks to the council some more
Why I'm glad they cut it:
-Just interrupting the story to tell us what we already know. And we kind of hate seeing that council any more than we have to.
Why it's still great to see it:
-Fury thinking of Barton above all as a hostage to be saved, not as a liability that needs to be taken out. Oh, look, Fury/Barton fic sprouting up...

Scene #7: "Commodore 64" and Hill and Fury on bridge
Why I'm glad they cut it:
-I imagine if Natasha really didn't know what the Commodore 64 was, her answer would be, "Whatever we don't have, we'll get for you."
-Meh, we don't need a "does Hill trust Fury? Is Hill to be trusted?" subplot on top of everything else.
Why it's still great to see it:
-Watching Bruce tease Natasha in a "no hard feelings" way.

Scene #8: Extended Black Widow & Hawkeye fight Chitauri
Why I'm glad they cut it:
-Still not sure that I am! I have to trust that it would have bogged down the pacing of the final fight.
-There's the perception that when it comes to human-vs.-alien hand-to-hand battles in this kind of thing, less is more. Punching out an alien makes the alien less scary. This is why Natasha gets a Chitauri weapon to wield and a Chitauri sled to pilot, and also why Hawkeye mostly uses his arrows and his devastating aim. When they're forced to resort to a few well-placed "Take THAT" hits it makes them look resourceful and kick-ass, but when it goes on too long we're reminded of the gulf between the powered heroes and the non-powered.
Why it's still great to see it:
-Watching our human heroes get punched and flipped and laid out and still getting the f**k up to smack some alien butt again, because at that moment there's really no one else to do it, is there? Yeah, just keep adding to those crowning moments of awesome, guys.

Comments

[lil-shepherd.livejournal.com]

My problem with the Steve scene - or at least with the bit where he looks at the info sheet on Peggy is that that isn't a UK address. It was my very first thought.

That letter-number combination cannot be British.

Of course, that started plot bunnies...

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I saw somewhere that the files used for all of the Avengers show that Steve and Tony have THE SAME SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER. Which is probably just a factor of "no one was expected to pay that much attention" but gives all kinds of fun thoughts because maybe it means the government is lying when they say they don't recycle Soc Sec numbers of the dead...! :D

[lil-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Of course, they can't use real addresses and real social security numbers and real telephone numbers ... but they can, at least, make them look right.

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

I'm still angry that they don't have Steve pick up Bucky's file in that scene. I could accept not referencing him explicitly in the movie, but not doing in directly in that scene is wrong on so many levels. It's only been weeks since he died for Steve, since Steve couldn't save him. That wound is still raw, and ignoring it just sits badly.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

There you go, another reason it might be good that they cut it--because they couldn't possibly give equal time to everyone who deserved it. Possibly Steve doesn't look at it right then because he already knows the answers in it--Bucky's dead--and the others are unknowns, but I do feel as if his emotional connection with Bucky had a lot more fuel than the one Steve shared with Peggy.

[ellid.livejournal.com]

I think it was supposed to be the one that's stamped "missing in action."

[carolinelamb.livejournal.com]

I liked that extended fight scene but also thought that the length might have bored some viewers.

I didn't even think about the Peggy subplot! The scenes where he walks through NY were lovely though. You're right about the waitress scene, but I felt sorry for the waitress whose scene was cut! I imagined her joy to be able to have this scene with Evans, and then it gets cut.

Same goes for Coby Smulders. I am not marvel-versed at all, so I didn't know Maria Hill before, but I felt sorry for the actress to lose such a big chunk.

[ellid.livejournal.com]

Evidently there was a scene written (but evidently not filmed) where he either calls or visits Peggy that was beautiful and poignant and brought the action to a screeching halt. I'm hoping that these (or something similar) end up in the second Captain America film, because it's going to be an emotional one no matter what.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I would really like to see what they intended! But, yeah, glad that didn't affect this film.

[carolinelamb.livejournal.com]

That would be heartbreaking but also satisfying–I did kind of wait for a scene with/about Peggy in The Avengers. Not that I think it should have been a major plot point, but I thought they would mention her somehow, like they did with Jane Foster ...

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Regarding Maria Hill, I do get the impression Whedon really wanted viewers to put themselves in her eyes, or to like her from the get-go, but I think he was quite wise to realize we weren't going to just fall into her viewpoint after having bonded with our favorite Avengers over six films' duration. We were going to fall into the Avengers' viewpoints, not someone who hasn't even appeared in any of the previous films.

[neery.livejournal.com]

I don't suppose you know where I can find these? I watched the last batch, but these I can't seem to find anywhere.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

There are tumblr videos that haven't yet been deleted; that's the great thing about tumblr videos. They're embedded and don't disappear like a youtube link...

ETA: Here, check here (http://amanuensis1.livejournal.com/284907.html?thread=10671339#t10671339).

[jamoche]

-Fury thinking of Barton above all as a hostage to be saved, not as a liability that needs to be taken out. Oh, look, Fury/Barton fic sprouting up...

Or a new take on the "Clint thinks everyone on the Helicarrier blames him for what he'd done" theme - Fury is going to unleash hell on anyone he catches acting on that belief.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

You KICK THEIR ASSES, Fury. :D

[andinocara.livejournal.com]

I have not seen some of these! There is a more Hawkeye and Black Widow? fighting? My daughter will be so happy :) She keeps complaining that they are on to parts 2 and 3 in the other movies and Natasha needs her own movie (smart 8 year old!).

Off to troll youtube and tumblr for clips...

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Your daughter is a SMART COOKIE! And, yeah, tumblr's got a lot of still-functional videos of these.

ETA: Here, check here (http://amanuensis1.livejournal.com/284907.html?thread=10671339#t10671339).

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

-Still not sure that I am! I have to trust that it would have bogged down the pacing of the final fight.

This is actually the one scene that I think they should have kept - it's not that long, I actually think it would flow quite well, and it has some AMAZING stunts and choreography. If anything, I feel like this was cut for money reasons (think about all the special effects they would have needed to do).

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I too love it, but it looks like they had it completed except for the computer graphics, so I'm not sure it was a cost thing. I honestly think the director and editors pay surgically close attention to pacing and must have felt it wouldn't have worked. But I darn well liked it! And, oh, Natasha lying on the roof of that car and then getting herself the f**k up--oh, how I loved that.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Same here. That was such an amazing moment.

[the_con_cept.livejournal.com]

I want to kiss your brain, ha ha! I especially agree about punching out an alien. They needed to make it look hard or the Chitauri would look silly.

The funny thing is, my first viewing I loved everything. But on the second and third watch the less it worked for me and the more I was glad they didn't leave those scenes in. I really, really enjoyed Bruce's scene, but I could see why they didn't keep it. For some reason, Steve's scene didn't work for me at all even though I love Steve. I think it's because the Avengers was just such a snappy movie, and the tone of that bit wrenched me into a different gear or something. And I guess having the Peggy thing and the waitress thing so close together kind of grossed me out for some reason. That scene just made me want to wallow for awhile or something. Well, I never did do well with the sad bits!

Also . . . I PLUS ONE the idea of Fury/Barton. I plus one it WITH GREAT ENTHUSIASM.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I remember--in fact, I was writing meta about it before there was an audience for meta or the word "meta"-- that when the first Alien is taken out by bullets in Aliens, it forever affects the perceptions in the original Alien, because they've just shown that, yes, you can take down an Alien with something as mundane as bullets.

The quiet scene of Natasha & Bruce near the beginning was as quiet as any scene in this film needed to get. (And that one still had all the lovely menace on both sides to drive it.)

Who's writing me the Fury/Barton? C'mon, people, get on it!

[andinocara.livejournal.com]

Who's writing me the Fury/Barton?

umm... you are? Pretty please? **puppy dog eyes**

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

DO I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING AROUND HERE

...oh, okay, maybe. I still have a Tony!whump fic that I've been working on for tragically long that refuses to take little bits of my attention; it wants me to sit the hell down with it for five hours and make major inroads on it and I just haven't been able to give it that. Oof, I need a darned extra vacation day.

[andinocara.livejournal.com]

YAY!

And - looking forward to Tony!whump (which made me google last time you mentioned it, because, oddly enough, I had never heard the term before) yes, Tony needs to be abused a bit :) ... And no one does it better...

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I just learned the term "whump" with this fandom and, yeah, was startled to realize how much I was gonna dive into that. :D

[demonqueen666.livejournal.com]

Oh dear, I thought I'd seen all the deleteds, but some of these I definitely missed out on! Do you know if they're all supposed to be on the blu-ray?

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Yes, indeed! That's apparently where they're leaking from, the DVD/Blu-ray. (Tumblr's still got a lot of links for 'em...)

ETA: Here, check here (http://amanuensis1.livejournal.com/284907.html?thread=10671339#t10671339).

[ellid.livejournal.com]

Are some of these going to be on the non-Blu Ray release?

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I think they'll be on any two-disc release, including DVD?

[nyxelestia.livejournal.com]

The meta is awesome, and I do love the perspective on why these things were cut from the final movie.

I'm curious, though, do you have any links for the last two deleted scenes? I've heard them referenced all over the place but can never find a decent working link. :(

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Here's the BW & H fight scene (http://roamerbait.tumblr.com/post/30602535622/i-have-no-clue-how-i-havent-seen-this-yet-but); I'll have to see if I find a link for the bridge one!

[nyxelestia.livejournal.com]

Think link you gave had the bridge one, actually, and it's awesome. Cracking up at Nat and Clint fighting all those tech-robed stunt men in the middle of the green screen, though. :) Still, awesome moves, and it looked kinda rough to do, must've sucked for that to just get cut.

In other words, Thank You! :D

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Imaginary conversation:

Renner: I got my head slammed against a car. A CAR. And it was considered "slow pacing"??
Johansson: *makes languid fainting face at him like when she was lying on top of the car*
Renner: ...okay, I take it back. Cutting THAT was the greater crime.

[florahart]

The connection with the waitress might be a little too...pat? The way it stood in the final cut, she's a little more "everywoman" than she is a plant for romance material.

You think? I left the theater feeling like she was supposed to be my expectation for Steve's Romance Material. Seriously, my kid and I were like, that waitress, you think they cut a scene with her? Because...

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Oh, I think I felt the teensy bit of potential for romance, because he did "save" her, after all, but it didn't feel over-the-top to me. More like she was going to be one of the hundreds of thousands of fangirls out there crushing on the good guys. Good call on your parts, though; I never once thought she might have had a cut scene before that!

[intrigueing.livejournal.com]

IA with all of this! The Cap scene in particular, as lovely and heartbreaking as it was, really did not belong anywhere near The Avengers. It felt like it was straight out of a completely different film.

I do wish we got maybe just a really short edited version of the Natasha + Clint fight though minus the punching out, just to show how bamf they were.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I got all caught up in the, "Oh, this is lovely stuff," with Cap, but then had to do the "shake head and reboot" to understand what a mood-killer it was.

I demand two dozen facial screencaps of Hawkeye in that cut scene. I DEMAND. :D