Kuroshitsuji ending discussion

[amanuensis1]

There's Kuroshitsuji discussion going on over on kuroshitsuji in a locked post, so, reposting this here for anyone who wants to squee/bitch/hash out with me.

I adored the ending. My first wish, no question, was for the anime not to have ended yet. I would have loved to see more of Sebastian and Ciel, so if there could have been a second season or a longer run I'd have loved that.

But ultimately I wanted this ending. I wanted no cheats. We've been told every episode that Ciel's soul is Sebastian's, and it never seemed that Sebastian meant it in a cruel way; there was too much affection between him and Ciel for that, in his way, and even Ciel never seemed to fear it. All part of the contract. Ciel bought life for himself when he made the contract--he'd have been meat on that altar otherwise--and he never shied from paying his debt.

Yes, I'd have loved a longer run. And I'm a bit in love with the moon_maiden36's idea that Sebastian likes watching Ciel's soul flavor itself with every bit of taint it experiences, so if Sebastian had decided he wanted Ciel to live longer before he claimed him, that would have been delightful. Sebastian's surprise when Ciel let himself fall from London Bridge implied that Ciel might have been allowed to go on living, as far as Sebastian was concerned, if he hadn't been so close to his natural death.

But all the possible cheats--Sebastian dying first, Sebastian choosing to forego the contract, Ciel finding some way to wiggle out of it--my stomach was in knots, fearing all of those possibilities. They wouldn't have been right, not with all that had been promised and promised with every episode.

Ambiguous ending? I wouldn't call it that. Artful ending, yes. They chose to spell it out that far but not show every irrefutable moment; no scene of Ciel's soul leaving his body, of demon!Sebastian winging his way to some fiery underworld...if you wanted those or needed Sebastian to have made some other choice, needed some other ending other than the one they implied, then take it as ambiguous if you will. I'm sympathetic with Never Believe It Until You See The Body club members, because the rule these days goes even beyond: And Even If You Do See The Body They Can Still Bring Characters Back. I don't yet have any confirmation that there won't be another season, after all. But I think they were direct enough to tell us what we were supposed to believe. Sebastian ferrying Ciel, the clear exchanges between the two of them, the scene's echo back to the close of the first opening titles (I never thought that would prove to be the final scene of the anime itself!), the gentle fade to black.

Sebastian's "Then, young master..."--I wonder how many ways that can be translated? "Now, young master"? "Shortly, young master"? There's a world of potential in that last line. As the ending episode approached I kept flashing upon a story of Tanith Lee's where a girl is bred to be sacrifice to a demon, but in the end when he comes for her--in the guise of a handsome prince--he tells her with amusement that his kingdom does lie under the ground, but it's not nearly as dreadful as its reputation would have it. "The country is not as it was." And Hell proves to be a glittering multiluminescent city to which they go. I kept thinking of that. I'm thinking of it even more now. And choking up.

Anyone else thrilled to pieces that we never saw all of Sebastian's demon form? Only teasing little flashes? Imagination is better than fixed reality at moments like those. Each audience member gets to make what she hopes. The moment can't be lost in "Oh, that's not scary at all/that's silly." (Those were some sweeeeet boots, though, I must say. ^_^ )

My loving the ending does not mean I didn't cry. Or that my heart isn't aching. Oh, Ciel. May you be more than a fleeting taste on an immortal's tongue.

I need fic.

Comments

[dmlpacker.livejournal.com]

I'm happy with this ending to. Sad, though, because just as you said, I'd have liked to see more of those two...

Do you happen to know if the manga's ending follows this (if it's ended)?

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

The manga is not complete! And I understand the anime only followed the manga up to a certain point; then it deviated to make an ending, using characters the manga did not have. So, lots more of our characters to follow! :D

[drgaellon]

where did you get yours? the version i downloaded isn't completely subbed, and only goes to episode 14.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Look for subs by Ronery, who are perhaps not as artful a set of translators as others, but they took over this series and did the subs damn quick, bless them. Go here: http://www.animetake.com/

[askani.livejournal.com]

I have all of Ronery's releases all on one page here > http://askani.livejournal.com/507933.html

[crescent-moony.livejournal.com]

Ack. I hate you for being far more eloquent and articulate than myself. XD I just put up my post about the finale, and I think you win at expressing everything I tried to. ^_^;;;;

But ultimately I wanted this ending. I wanted no cheats. We've been told every episode that Ciel's soul is Sebastian's, and it never seemed that Sebastian meant it in a cruel way; there was too much affection between him and Ciel for that, in his way, and even Ciel never seemed to fear it. All part of the contract. Ciel bought life for himself when he made the contract--he'd have been meat on that altar otherwise--and he never shied from paying his debt. <-- Yes. Just yes. To all of that. Every word. I want to add more, but I feel like it'd just be unnecessary word-vomit.

Yes, I'd have loved a longer run. And I'm a bit in love with the moon_maiden36's idea that Sebastian likes watching Ciel's soul flavor itself with every bit of taint it experiences, so if Sebastian had decided he wanted Ciel to live longer before he claimed him, that would have been delightful. <-- Wow. I'm flattered! XD And haha, Ciel's Magical Self-Seasoning Soul...

I have so many fic ideas right now. But none of them are happy or funny. T_T Oh well. Perhaps angst!fics will help bleed the sadness and heart-ache-y-ness out of me...

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I have one crack-funny fic that's trying to get out and I think I should let it 'cos I NEED it. Oh, I had such a cry last night.

HOW? HOW CAN AN ENDING BE SO RIGHT AND YET LEAVE ME SOBBING TWO DAYS LATER?

*goes to comment on your discussion post!*

[crescent-moony.livejournal.com]

I think you should, too. WRITE, AMANUENISIS-SAN! Write and give all of us crying fangirls a good laugh! ^_~

Oh, and I forgot, I wanted to comment on the "Then, young master" portion of your discussion:

I heard that line, in my mind, as "Well, then, young master... [let us begin]." Or something along those lines. If it ever got dubbed, I'd love to see it translated simply into "good bye, young master," because I feel as if that's the undertone that was trying to be expressed. If you know what I mean. (But "Well, then, young master..." would be good, too. XD)

I KNOW! *still whimpering in the fangirl!angst corner*

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I started writing it yesterday. ^_^ It is not as funny as I thought it was going to be, more...witty in its smuttiness. I hope. :D

And I'm already spinning about with the possible interpretations of "Then, young master..." made fic or ficlets. We should have a poll on the comm and get all the ideas people have! :D

[crescent-moony.livejournal.com]

Yea! I'm actually mid-fic, now, too. X3 But yours sounds like it will be much more fun... I can't wait! XD XD XD

We should! And after the poll, we should write up ficlets for each of the interpretations, and string them together, and post them as a story. :3

[mybrokenlocket.livejournal.com]

Do you know the name of the Tanith Lee story you mentioned? I've read a few things of hers that I've loved, and that sounds intriguing.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's The Golden Rope, from her collection Red as Blood--it's a retelling of Rapunzel. ^_^

[mybrokenlocket.livejournal.com]

Ooh, retold fairy tales- my favorite. Now I have to get my hands on it. Thank you!

[robotlove.livejournal.com]

I need more good endings.

*makes a note to finish this series when she finds the right time*

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Do! Lemme know what you think as you go. I need more discussion! :D

[robotlove.livejournal.com]

OMG YOUR ICON I CAN TOTALLY SEE HIM SAYING THAT TO CIEL D'AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWW

I will. I want to see this bittersweet ambiguous shippy end. The way you've appraised it almost makes it a "MUST. WATCH. NOW."

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Oh, your icon, now you're trying to kill me with adorable!

Watch the whole thing. It gets "WTF??" in places, I won't pretend it doesn't, but, oh, it was satisfying.

[hezaakun.livejournal.com]

Sorry to intrude on this blog! I agree with everything you've said here. My only confusion is: they announced a second season!?! I have no idea what a second season could contain...

I have a question though! What was the name of the Tanith Lee book you mention? :3

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I still enjoy discussing this. I will until the second season comes out! My hope is that the second season consists of flashback escapades before Sebastian took Ciel's soul.

The Tanith Lee book is Red As Blood, and the story in it is The Golden Rope, a twist on Rapunzel. I adore fairy tale twists so the whole book delights me!

Sweet!

[hezaakun.livejournal.com]

I am totally going to check that book out. :D

I had a dream earlier this week that I got a sneak peak at season 2 of Kuroshitsuji....

Ciel was now soul-less. His bitterness and husk of a body struggling through hell to be reborn on earth. As he had found out his vengeance was not compleat. Went back and forth between soul-less husk struggling in hell, and watching a weird homunculus resembling Ciel slowly taking form on earth.

But, yeah, I'm with you, I think/expect it to be flashbacks of them.

[marufii.livejournal.com]

i didn't get the meaning of the ending... really... most of the mystery isn't solved yet... and there are things that need to be explain... i hope the season 2 will solved the mystery...

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Do you mean the whole "who was responsible for the deaths of Ciel's parents" mystery? Or the very ending, between Sebastian and Ciel? I agree the former has loopholes, but I think the latter rests satisfyingly closed, IMHO.

[aaalove.livejournal.com]

AH! My heart's aching too, but mostly because I'm so sad it ended and part of me has so many unanswered questions. I was so confused by it! But regardless it was one of the best animes I've watched [I've been on a good streak so far so i hope it continues] but ah, I now know I'll be buying the manga just to see if it will help me understand it better! LOL... I suck at understanding movie/anime endings. But I agree the ending was the way it should have been and the aspects left to imagination were perfect!!

[sorry for the randomness and lateness, but i know no one whose seen this personally and had to spaz with someone!!!]

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I am totally still spazzing about this! As we get closer to the next season my love for this first part of the series just ramps and ramps. I want to watch it yet again!

[okiinawa.livejournal.com]

I think I'll add to the rants and raves as well.

I know I'm completely late to watching/reading this anime/manga, but I only recently heard about it through a friend. Curiosity overwhelmed me as I looked up the plot summary and some images from the series, so I immediately downloaded and began watching it. I instantly fell in love; I am by nature more inclined towards the darker animes, ones with more depth, and Kuroshitsuji sated my hunger for just such a thing. I cannot express how much I've come to adore this series and it's characters - in fact, I made a LJ account just to join the fanclub. ^ ^;

Back to the topic at hand, the ending of the series left me seriously broken hearted and wanting more. I agree that the end was as it should have been, it suited the story and the characters and did justice for Ciel's and Sebastien's trials throughout the series. The problem is, I didn't want it to end. I literally woke up the next morning feeling glum and listless thinking, "It can't really be done and over with.. Sebastien and Ciel can't just be gone."

However, with the prospect of watching Kuroshitsuji II on the horizon, I have renewed hope and it has a real chance at becoming my, dare I say, favorite anime. I'll be cosplaying Ciel (I'm a girl, hehe. It should be fun!) at this year's Onicon in Houston, and I'm ecstatic. (: I love the outfits and the intricacy in many of the clothes worn in the show, so this will be a real treat for my inner fangirl. I forgot to mention, my boyfriend will be attending Onicon on my arm as the succulent Sebastien. ^ . ~
Eeeek!

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I love darker stories myself. I'm usually not the one rooting for characters to die, though; usually I like endings where characters are allowed to live, to escape the horror they suffered, ennobled by what they've endured. The structure of Kuroshitsuji, though, left me wanting the ending they gave us.

Since I don't know if you've watched any of Kuroshitsuji II, I'll try not to spoil anything! My way of viewing it is as an AU of the first series, and viewed that way, I simply adore it. There's such a story woven underneath the weirdness of the first half of the new series, which they don't start to reveal until later, and then it's gasp-worthy.

Share pictures of your cosplay with us, please, it sounds fantastic!

[okiinawa.livejournal.com]

I agree, I'm a happy-ending nut, but the unique way the characters were developed here just demanded the resolution that was given us.

I've only watched the first two episodes so far (I've got up to episode 11 downloaded) and I have to admit I'm a little bit confused. If only for the fact that some people are back whom I assumed dead, aside of course from the obvious one. o.- Plus, no one seems to act as if anything happened! @_@ AU at this point seems like the only logical explanation.. but I'll be patient!

And of course!! I'd love to share pictures. ^ ^ Oni-con is a month and a half away still but I will be sure to update this with the pictures when I get 'em.