Non-sexual squick: fish-out-of-water syndrome.

[amanuensis1]

While common sense tells me I should see Enchanted--it's a Disney movie, Menken songs, well-reviewed, likely to be seen by enough Disney fans that I will want to assimilate it into my reference knowledge--there's something about the premise that hits my squick buttons: the humiliating fish-out-of-water factor.

Watching someone flounder (no pun intended) in a situation completely unfamiliar to them--a situation so familiar to us, the audience, that it's meant to provoke laughs at the someone's expense--is hideous to me, makes me run out of the room crying. Whether the floundering is because the situation is merely alien to the individual, or because the individual has a mental handicap, I react the same way. It doesn't matter how well it's done, or how warm-heartedly it's meant.

I can't listen to people tell me how Being There is one of their favorite movies, or how Star Trek IV (the one with the whales and the time-travel) is the best film of the franchise. I wept fat howling tears over Pleasantville and The Jerk. Don't even think of asking me to see Elf. I especially--god, it's hard to talk about this trigger--will freak when someone is portrayed as being hungry but does not know how to go about getting food in their alien situation. Not because they're being denied it--watching someone starve because they're trapped or having food deliberately withheld is awful, but in a general "horror" sense--but because it's easily obtainable if they just knew how to get it. The idea that they might go hungry under those circumstances terrifies me.

Some people have tried to tell me I'm viewing these all wrong, that they're meant to be uplifting, to show how adversity can be met with innocence--I can't hear it, can't even listen to the defense without running away crying.

And it's because each time it's a situation the viewer's familiar with--our world, one we adapt in every day--that I'm sickened, struck by the humiliation. Stanislaw Lem wrote a book called Return From the Stars where an astronaut from our era returns to Earth far in the future, and refuses to spend precious time in re-orientation--he just chucks it and goes out into this unfamiliar world to acclimate as he goes. And that doesn't distress me, because our heads are with him, in his head--not in the heads of the people who see him and are puzzled at his ignorance. From his point of view, we move along with him and think he's doing pretty well, we're doing pretty well, for someone who doesn't know the rules and is feeling his way. Pleasantville doesn't bother me to watch the brother and sister try to function in the television fantasy world, because they're more knowledgeable than the people of the world into which they go. What gets me is when the rules of the fantasy world start breaking down, and the fantasy world inhabitants have no idea how to cope with the new rules as their world turns into ours.

(Forrest Gump doesn't bother me much, but that's just because it's dumb and I can't suspend my disbelief for any of it. About the time we got to the "I taught Elvis how to move" part I was gagging.)

So I may just have to read the synopsis on Enchanted and leave it at that.

Comments

[greenmouse.livejournal.com]

I actually agree with you. Put like that, these movies do have some horrifying aspects. Thank you for sharing, very well said!

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

It gets to me on a level I can't explain, but, geez, does it get to me!

[violetisblue.livejournal.com]

Though I don't share this particular squick, offering hugs and/or words of support anyway because having a very specific, serious trigger that other people keep dismissing as benign or funny is just the worst feeling in the world. (Also, it's good to know these things about friends before you tell them, "Hey, you gotta run right out and see/read/hear...)

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I keep saying that the best gauge of "will you like my recommendations for movies" is Tarantino. If I think Kill Bill is the best thing EVAR but you hate it, I try not to make any further recommendations for ya, 'cos we're interested in different things for movies.

[kellyfaboo.livejournal.com]

It's the humour through humiliation that gets me to want to walk away. I can't watch Meet the Parents and its ilk because it's just too darn embarrasing. So when fish-out-of-water movies cross the line where you are squirming for the characters I have the same problem.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

And when you see the embarrassment coming but the character doesn't--that's cringe-worthy, isn't it? If the character himself knows it's coming--kind of like Charlie Brown, who never gets his hopes up 'cos he knows his life is filled with disappointment--it's not nearly so bad.

[twistedrecesses.livejournal.com]

I'm not quite that sensitive to the fish-out-of-water factor, but only just. Shows like Nickelodeon's Doug - I spent half of each episode with my hands over my face because I couldn't watch Doug (or whomever) embarrass himself. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable, and almost ashamed to be watching it.

:-/

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

The most painful is when you see it coming and the character doesn't--that's, oof.

[glockgal.livejournal.com]

This is the first time I have ever heard of this being a genre, but...it's all so true! I guess I didn't realize because I didn't notice the patterns (ie, that you connect from other movies like Elf and Star Trek IV) up until you've made this post.

This was a really interesting and eye-opening read. And yes- probably sticking to the Enchanted synopsis is a good idea - from what I saw from the commercials, I now realize that Enchanted seems to be full of the fish-outta-water gags. *eep*

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

The preview didn't have me screaming, but I was cringing all the way through. Aiiieee.

[persephone-blue.livejournal.com]

Your reasons for not wanting to see Enchanted totally nailed what made me so uncomfortable about the trailers. I'm frustrated when a main character doesn't know what's going on when an audience does.

Time travel films where a character from the past or future ends up in our present often make me agitated at the humor. The beginning of Kate and Leopold, where the 19th century hero attempts to adjust to modern New York City, makes me nash my teeth at the dumb jokes made at his expense because he just doesn't know. As the story goes on and Leopold reveals that he's, you know, smart, I get more used to the idea.

During Pleasantville, I decided that the second half of the story was partially a metaphor for the 1950's and early 1960's, and was able to cope with the reactions of the townspeople much better.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Oh, god, Kate and Leopold, thank you for mentioning that. That's another one of those movies that had me hitting myself in the head when it was over, saying, "You need to learn: just because you like an actor (Hugh Jackman) does not mean you should see all the films he's in. LEARN IT!"

And I do think Pleasantville's a really good movie, and I even like it in a way and recommend it, but I cannot think of it without threatening to cry all over again.

[florahart]

This is not a slam: I find it fascinating that for all the things you DO like, that you write about and whatnot, that this is your squick. No, really, I'm not saying YOU FREAK here, because for one thing, we all know we're all a little fringeward with the porn anyway, so pot, kettle, and for another, I'm not actually saying this is abnormal and weird, just, that it's interesting.

So, out of curiosity, are you saying, in that last part, if the person who is the fish out of water is okay with it--if it's being treated as an adventure?--that's okay; it's when it's being treated as puzzling-to-scary that it's not? Or does that matter? I'm just curious about how the frame is relevant to how it feels to you, about whether it matters that the person wanting the food is clearly thinking, huh, well, this must be easy enough, if I knew how, but I'm going to have to work it out, rather than, Hungry dammit need wah.

Me, I do okay with fish out of water in general, but have concluded my humiliation squick point is that I can watch something humiliating happen, but can't watch it happen again. That is, I watched The 40-Year Old Virgin, and it was fine and funny, but I can't watch it again and I know it. I run into this a LOT, where something I enjoyed once I just cannot watch or read again knowing what I know. I've concluded that somehow I'm good with suspending disbelief to the extent that I can pretend I think this isn't going to go to the humiliation place, but only the first time I see it.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

So, out of curiosity, are you saying, in that last part, if the person who is the fish out of water is okay with it--if it's being treated as an adventure?--that's okay; it's when it's being treated as puzzling-to-scary that it's not?

No, no, I'm saying that, in Return From the Stars, we are not seeing a figure lost in a situation with which we are comfortable--we are every bit as lost as he is. Everything is unfamiliar to us, as it is to him--when a woman takes him out for a snack that he's not familiar with, she shows him how to fold the thing up into a shape meant for eating, which he does. And we, the reader, didn't know how to do it either. We can't laugh at him for something we know how to do--that would be obvious to us--because it isn't obvious to us. We're in his shoes, not in the shoes of the person who's familiar with the territory, so it's not funny or meant to be held up as a joke to us "in the know" readers. It's all about the perspective of being lost.

[ook.livejournal.com]

I also have a low tolerance for these types of movies, but I particularly hate "Forrest Gump" -- the character and the film are just so amazingly stupid.

I might see "Enchanted" though...just because it's a parody of Disney films and it's got Mencken music. I really miss Ashman a lot. :(

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Ohhhh, who doesn't miss Ashman? I listen to my "behind the scenes" CDs of Little Mermaid, Aladdin, and Beauty and the Beast and wanna cry.

[bluestocking79.livejournal.com]

You know, now that you mention it, this explains a lot about why I have no desire to see the movie, despite the favorable reviews. I couldn't put my finger on it, but this is exactly it: I can't stand to watch the humiliation-as-humor.

I've come across other people who have this squick as well, so I don't think you're remotely alone. Matter of fact, I was just rereading White Noise and I was struck by how the younger girl has to leave the room when she sees anybody being humiliated or embarrassed on TV. It's not a bulletproof squick for me--Elf completely won me over, and I happen to love The Jerk to an embarrassing degree--but I do feel that aversion. It will make me squirm more than a horror flick.

I can't stand fic that portrays wizards (especially Severus) as consistently humiliating themselves in the Muggle world. It was bad enough when JKR did it; I don't need to see more, thanks. What astounds me is that in the wake of knowing that Severus is half-Muggle, grew up in the Muggle world, etc., I'm STILL seeing fic that portrays him as incompetent in the Muggle world, all for the sake of laughs.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I remember--who wrote this one, was it Lexin?--there's a story where Severus and Harry have to do an errand in the Muggle world and Harry shows up in Muggle clothes and Severus shows up as he's usually dressed and Harry says, "You can't go dressed like that!" and Severus deadpans, "Yes, I can. I can pass as a vicar." I LOVE that line so much. It's the utter opposite of a man in danger of humiliation.

[laurelwood.livejournal.com]

Wow, I never thought of this theme being a potential squick. It's fascinating, and I totally see where it could agitate you. It's funny; I don't mind being a fish out of water, but it is kind of uncomfortable watching one.

Reading your description made me aware of a squick I've got for watching people getting cheated, framed, or swindled. The Shawshank Redemption is one of my favorite movies ever, but I can't watch the first part of it because I can't stand seeing Andy being hauled off to jail for something he didn't do. Another theme I can't bear to watch is comedies about people trying to get somewhere but being thwarted at every turn. Makes me want to rip out my hair.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Oh, oh, that's another one that makes me unhappy! Injustice. The whole "framed" thing--I hated that before I knew there was a word for it. Seriously, I remember being a small girl and saying, "I don't like those kinds of stories--where someone didn't do something and they say they didn't but nobody believes them. I don't want any more of those stories!"

[beckaandzac.livejournal.com]

I am in total agreement here. I think for me it comes from feeling a bit socially awkward myself, and never wanting to be the person who makes other people laugh and cringe at my faux pas.

It's something that's most recently come up for me in reading Supernatural fic because a lot of people take interactions between college-educated Sam and Dean, who lives out of his car, in that direction. Which makes it maybe a good thing that the show didn't do it for you.

(I totally cried the first time I saw Pleasantville, and it still makes me twitchy, but it seems much kinder than a lot of things in the genre. At least the kids understand the feeling of disorientation, instead of being either amused or disgusted by it.)

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, the kids know they're in over their heads in Pleasantville, and they are actually more experienced than the people in the fantasy world, which makes it bearable. It's when the rules start changing and the fantasy world people have no idea how to change themselves--have no ability to adapt, in some cases--that the upset starts taking me over.

[orchidchaos.livejournal.com]

Granted, Star Trek: The Voyage Home was entertaining, it was not the best. Everyone knows that the Wrath of Khan pwns. Yes, I just said pwns.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

So, so, so, so, so, SO true. In fact, that's another reason not to listen to anyone who waxes blissful over IV! :D

[ishafel.livejournal.com]

It's funny the things that bother us, isn't it? I can't watch The Office, because it squicks me to watch Steve Carell/ Michael. He's just so awkward that it's painful. It's like, this friend of my mom's has a kid in his late teens who is severely autistic, and there are all these weird things that upset him and make him lose his temper, and I cannot stand to be in the same room with him when he does it, and I cannot imagine how she does it, and it always makes feel guilty and uncomfortable and horrified.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

It makes NO sense how I can watch and enjoy The Office. NONE. I should cringe and hate that show. But I don't. If I had to invent an explanation the best I could say is that Michael struck me as a smarmy willful jerk who deserves his comeuppance, not a hapless fool but an actual asshole. Or, at least, he DID strike me that way at the beginning. They keep making the guy more and more sympathetic with every season and I have actually said that it was starting to worry me, because soon they were gonna cross my threshold!

[a-white-rain.livejournal.com]

It's not as bad for me - but there are parts I do agree with. I can't stand things like mental illness or hunger or anything played for laughs. I just don't find it funny.

Oh man I don't think I could take Forrest Gump seriously because of all the crack. I, did, however cry at the end.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Naw, I was not the audience for Forrest Gump. It got off on the wrong foot with the mental disability and then just kept hitting my "stupid" buttons over and over again.

[lunadeath02.livejournal.com]

Wow. Maybe that's why I don't like certain movies/shows, etc. I don't know if Family Guy is in this category, but there are so many stupid/humiliating things that are considered funny in it that I just cringe and go "Yikes, that is so stupid, wtf?" and just don't want to watch any more. But the Simpsons are still fine to me. :\

[capri-chan.livejournal.com]

I absolutely love your icon. XD Animaniacs is awesome, isn't it?

[capri-chan.livejournal.com]

I never thought about it that way.

Though it is nice to know that I'm not the only person who gets embarassed for fictional characters. I just think, "Oh, God, don't do that, you're gonna humiliate yourself." And they do it anyway, and even if they aren't embarassed by their actions, I am. It's always annoying.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

When you see it coming! Oof, that's the hardest.

[gmth.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I never thought about it, but I can see why that might bother someone. I have an embarrasment squick myself, but I guess I'm at a higher tolerance level because I never thought of fish-out-of-water in that kind of context.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I can't explain why it gets to me--sometimes I can't even explain why one version of it will undo me and another one slips right by (as in The Office, as I outlined above).

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

I can completely relate. I don't have that particular squick (though my father such a low threshold for humiliation comedy that he had to get up and leave the theatre during "Meet the Parents") but I do get extremely upset at the related humilation of dashed hopes, especially when it involves a character reluctant to raise those hopes in the first place, if that makes sense. The scene where Filch lights up at getting chocolates in the OotP movie only to have them turn out to be hexed was more sad to me than funny, and not just because I'm a Filch fan (though I suppose my fanfic tendency towards giving miserable characters modest happiness stems from that same place).

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Oh, that scene with Filch--my own heart fell at that moment! I saw it coming and whimpered!

[wivern.livejournal.com]

*nods* I'm pretty much the same. And I hated Forest Gump.

Here in Aus we had a TV series called Mother and Son about a middle aged son living with an elderly, and vaguely demented mother, and it always made me squirm becuase most of the 'humour' was about her odd behaviour, even though it was pitched as being about the son's cluelessness. Not quite the same genre but close.

I can't watch humour of humiliation. Actually, I don't see the humour quite apart from the aquirm factor.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

There's all sorts of levels of that thing and I don't know why some of it gets under my radar. Or why it gets under anyone's radar.

[alexandralynch.livejournal.com]

I can't stand humiliation humor either. It literally makes me have to get up and leave. I also find myself being painfully embarassed for people who clearly don't have the sense to be.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Oh, that last--"don't have the sense to be." Yeah, that's exactly it.

[berseker.livejournal.com]

YES. THANK YOU so much for saying this. It´s exaclty what I feel, and I almost coudn´t go through the trailer. It doesn´t make me cry, but it felt like laughing at someone´s else expenses, and that´s just mean.

(isn't ironic that I can watch anything about, say, bullying, and read extremely violent stuff for fun? it´s just this type of humiliation that turns me completely off).

Plus, they probably make fun of the songs. I liked the songs. I kinda wish Disney would do that again, instead of just having dialogues in the movies ;)

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Aren't triggers bizarre? So much stuff, kink-wise, that I think is fun or sexy that would give a million people the heebie-jeebies, but this gets to me deeply.

[tyleet27.livejournal.com]

Oh man, I have this squick too. When I was little, and anything "fish out of water-y" was happening on the television, I'd run out of the room, my hands clapped over my ears, singing loudly so that there wasn't even a chance of hearing what was going on. If anyone asked me why, I'd just tell them "it was embaressing," and be unable to explain further.

But this totally nails why I walked out of the Terminal--everyone told me it was hysterical, and touching, and all this stuff, and the first five minutes literally made me cry, because he didn't know what was going on. *shudders*

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Oh, crap, you and I HAVE to go to movies together. You're completely me. There was no way I would have seen The Terminal--it was exactly the sort of thing I knew would freak me out. Tell you what, if I see any films with that kind of stuff that gets to us, I'll email you or something, okay?

[paper-tzipporah.livejournal.com]

I sometimes get that squick, actually, depending on the movie -- although I do like Star Trek IV. I'm not sure Enchanted will actually hit your squick button, though (I saw it twice this weekend). There are very few moments where you're supposedly laughing at her for her sudden immersion in a foreign culture -- after the initial culture shock of going from cartoonland to New York, situations that could be potentially humiliating become an opportunity for Giselle to spread wonder and magic into the lives of jaded New Yorkers. The scene where she sings in Central Park could have been a fish out of water moment, but instead Central Park becomes the water and everyone sings along. With accompanying choreography.

That is to say, it's really nothing like Elf.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Thank you for letting me know about this! This is the kind of spoiler I want to see, the kind that let me make decisions as to whether I can see a film. ^_^

[meredyth-13.livejournal.com]

I can totally sympathise. *hugs*

My own emotional weakpoints as a viewer / reader are along similar lines. And don't ever ask me to go to a magic show or amateur stand up comedy night. :D

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I like magic shows but not the kind where some smart ass in the audience is going to yell out how it's done.

[fly-chickadee.livejournal.com]

You make an interesting point, and while I don't share that whole squick with you, I do get the occasional moment where if a part of a show or movie or even book is too embarrassing, I won't watch/read, and usually people are like, "What's your problem?"
Well said, however. :)
I still kinda want to see it though, because James Marsden looks too cute in tights. XD

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I do like James Marsden, I do!