Grammar and a slogan

[amanuensis1]

Can't find the answer to this, so, I'm soliciting my flist:


Which is proper:

a) Should he have tried to tell him this years ago, he wonders?

b) Should he have tried to tell him this years ago? he wonders.



Also, as much as I'd like to be wearing one of those buttons/t-shirts proclaiming Snape's loyalties, "Snape Is Innocent" just doesn't do it for me. Snape's not innocent--he's a spy and a man capable of performing an execution and he's a right sarcastic nasty git, even if he's on the side of good. And "Snape Is Good" doesn't get the point across either--I imagine a Snape in white robes with little wings and a halo and a harp. So not on.

So what could we fit on a button that would get the point across? I've been thinking of these options:

"I &hearts Snape, the loyal bastard."

"Snape: Still Dumbledore's man."

Or maybe something a bit more obscure but certainly point-making:

"Dumbledore made him do it."

None of them quite make me cry, "Yes!" So I'm soliciting all of you. If you've got any suggestions, make them here. I want 'em!

Comments

[snakeling]

b, no wondering about it. a rather offends my eyes, to be honest ;)

As for Snape, well, look at my icon :)

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Whee, your icon is perfect! Okay, I think you're right, something like that would be splendid for a shirt or button. Heck, maybe I just need to commission an artist and have done!

[tinderblast.livejournal.com]

Snape, sings: 'My double-play brings Albus to the (grave)yard ...'

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Okay, you are a GOOFBALL. This is not a bad thing, mind! XD

[cordelia_v]

You know, I have wondered exactly the same thing myself recently, about the question mark placement. So, I don't know, either. Let's hope that Isis responds to this, eh?

As for the T shirt, you're right: "Snape's Innocent" doesn't cover it for me, either. I've vote for "Dumbledore made him do it," myself.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Grammar: so far the votes are split! I need more input, drat it!

And I sort of like how "Dumbledore made him do it" doesn't even mention Snape, so, you have to be one step further, brain-wise, to get it. Yes, I can be horribly elitist, why do you ask? ^_~

[viverra-libro.livejournal.com]

I think that the correct choice depends on your point-of-view in the story. The first choice, "(a)", is correct if the narrator is omniscient/neutral third person. The second choice is correct if the sentence an internal monologue, and is surrounded with quotation marks ( "Should he have tried to tell him this years ago," he wonders? ) and the punctuation moved to the end.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

It is not meant to have quotation marks around it--it's a narrative voice that's limited to the POV of the person doing the thinking but the "he" instead of an "I" precludes quotation marks. See why I'm having trouble? ^_^

[thelastgoodname.livejournal.com]

I like neither a nor b, and would offer, "He wonders, should he have tried to tell him this years ago?" instead.

As for the other: "Snape: Ambiguously Positioned and Proud of It."

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Grammar: certainly that's one way of dealing with it! Which I might choose to use, yes. Though I'm sure there is an answer and would like to know if anyone can tell me.

And I can't agree that Snape's position is ambiguous--it's all there in Book Six. I can't be convinced otherwise, I fear. ^_^

[underlucius.livejournal.com]

I'm still searching, I think that a is right, but I need proof.

I use this site a lot

http://www.drgrammar.org/faqs/

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Ha, the link showed up purple, so it is one of the ones I checked first! Let me know if you have more luck.

[scribbulus-ink.livejournal.com]

B is correct, but awkward. I'd suggest rewording it to something like "He wonders if he should have tried to tell him this years ago".

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

That's two votes for rewording it. And so far it's split as to which is correct, drat.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_hannelore/]

Eek, no good on the first question, I'm afraid.

how about...

Snape: It's Only a Flesh Wound

I Trust Severus Snape

Snape to Dumbledore: As You Wish

Snape: The Right Man for the Wrong Job

??

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I love the ambiguity of the last one, wah ha! And "I Trust Severus Snape" has great potential, yes.

(What d'you mean, you can't help with the grammar? I'm foundering here, darnit! ^_^ )

[catrinella.livejournal.com]

Ditto on what McKay said. I'd go with the indirect approach: He wondered... if only because the punctuation gets in the way when it's written properly.

I'm fond of the "Still Dumbledore's Man" vibe.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

It IS a nice vibe, isn't it? Nice to use what the author herself has given us.

Grammar: still debating.

[cluegirl.livejournal.com]

How about "Snape is Complicated"?
I think that gets across the heart of the matter well. At least enough to start the relevant conversations, right?

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Nah, I can't go with that, because to me as a reader it's plain as day. Well, okay, he's leading a complicated life, yeah, but HBP spelled out his loyalties ever so simply. Not for Harry, poor lamb, but for the reader, no question.

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

These:

a) Should he have tried to tell him this years ago, he wonders?

b) Should he have tried to tell him this years ago? he wonders.

...have slightly different meanings, since in example (b) the thought is complete and then the *new* thought is "He wonders." (note that in example (b) the 'H' in 'He' should be capitalized). Personally? I'd go with option (a)

As for Snape, no...he's not innocent.

How about:

Snape: Still Not King.
Snape: Still the Prettiest

(hee)

Okay, seriously? I'm going with the words on my icon, because really? That's about all I can say with any real certainty.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

If you think that the "He" in option b should be capitalized then option b as I have it is wrong, because they're meant to be one sentence. You have me thinking more and more that "a" is correct.

Isn't it great how Snape ain't pretty? Love the git.

[marinarusalka.livejournal.com]

I actually rather like "Dumbledore made hi do it."

[marinarusalka.livejournal.com]

Uh, that's "made him do it."

[gmth.livejournal.com]

How about:

Snape doesn't really suck as much as you might think he does.

Or:

Snape: 1, Dumbledore: 0

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

*dies* No, we cannot use the latter, darnit! Everyone will think we have no clue! ^_^

[pen-and-umbra.livejournal.com]

My vote's on re-wording ("He wonders whether he should have tried to tell him this years ago.") and on Dumbledore Made Him Do It. Or, some other slogan:

Conspiracy to Commit Avada Kedavra
Snape: Not Royal, Just Loyal
I Could Be Persuaded To Trust Snape. Maybe.

...okay, I suck at these. ;P But the last one's how I think of things now, at least.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Oh! I really like "Not Royal, Just Loyal"--fits the book title and everything, whee!

[slumber.livejournal.com]

I Trust Snape is actually pretty good. :P As is Dumbledore Made Him Do It, AND you have the added bonus of closet!slashers winking at you too, if they do pass you by. ;)

If you DO find the answer to your grammar question, please tell us. :P

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

There have been a lot of replies about the grammar but it's only been a short time, so, I'll wait until I declare it hopeless. And YAY for closet!slashers winking!

[sor-bet.livejournal.com]

I like that icon that some people have, it's a pic of movie!Snape with the caption "Dumbledore's man through and through". So your second choice is close to that.

Or maybe "Snape -- Without Question" But I'm really tired this morning so maybe that doesn't make sense to anyone except me......

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's senseless but it might still have some people wondering to what it referred. But *I* get it!

[prillalar]

1. I punctuate direct thoughts as though they were dialogue, minus any quote marks: How did I miss that? he mused. I should have noticed Harry's third nipple years ago, he thought.

2. Really, I think Snape's loyalty is to Snape and that his behaviour is driven by his own cost-benefit analysis. Which would make a lousy button. :)

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Yeah, here they're not direct thoughts--note the "he" instead of "I", or I could put italics on the thoughts and have done. Bah.

And "cost-benefit analysis" is a guaranteed soporific on a button! ^_^

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

b) is correct!!!!! b) all the way.

I love "Dumbledore made him do it." <3333333333

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

So much dissent on the grammar, wah!

And I'm loving all the suggestions people are coming up with for a slogan.

[cmere.livejournal.com]

*wants a button!*

As for grammar, A sounds and looks better to me, but that's just going off my own instinct.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Yes, instinct is making everyone go off in different directions! I remain uncertain. Sigh.

[silverhielm.livejournal.com]

I say B is right! There's no doubt he's wondering so the question mark is related to the first part only.
I'm back from holidays!!! *hugs*
As for the t-shirt..I do believe in Snape, I do! I do! XD

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Only possible response (to all of that!) is to clap my hands!

[alyndra]

*watches grammar debate in genuine curiousity -- wondered about it just the other day, in fact -- and also genuine amusement (a! No, b! No, a! No! REPHRASE!)*

;DDD

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Oh, you think we are a source of AMUSEMENT, do you?! (Seriously, I'm with you. I've never seen such debate! ^_^ )

[ariadneelda.livejournal.com]

I've seen b) used far too many times in English novels (I'm a translator). I know it's correct in my language, too, but that's irrelevant since the punctuation rules are not always the same in different languages. In any case, I've never come across a). It also makes sense grammatically that b) should be correct. The question is "Should he have tried to tell him this years ago", and ends there. "he wonders" is a statement, not a question. And btw, "he" should not be written with a capital H, since "he wonders" is part of the same sentence. Unless all those editors of the books I've translated were crappy, I think b) is the correct one.

As for Snape, I've made an icon saying "How dare you doubt me?" (But haven't used it yet.) Not sure if it's good enough, as I usually suck at coming up with clever lines. *g*

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

used far too many times

Now, that makes it sound like you've seen it but don't think it's right. But from the rest of the context, I think you're saying it's at least a convention to use it, which is helpful!

(And your icon here is perfect, oh, yes, it is. ^_^ )

[atalantapendrag.livejournal.com]

No one is truly "innocent".

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Well, not Snape! Ah, and I get your icon's ref, whee! Yay Sondheim!

[mctabby.livejournal.com]

Lose the question mark, keep the comma: Should he have tried to tell him this years ago, he wonders.

And when human minds fail, ask the Advertising Slogan Generator.

I Can't Believe I Ate The Whole Snape.
It's the Snape You Can See.
Doing It Right Before Your Snape.
Welcome To Snape Country.
The Coolest Snape on Ice.
Show Me The Snape!
The Snape of Confidence.
I Bet He Drinks Snape.
Go On, Get Your Snape Out.
It's Snape Time.
Better Living Through Snape.
I Think, Therefore Snape.

Perhaps you could go with the simple appeal: Honk if you believe in Snape!

Or, for the waverers... Snape: I want to believe. :D

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

You know, I think your grammar answer is the one that's going to convince me most.

Your slogans make my head hurty! ^_^

[herbmcsidhe.livejournal.com]

This is awkward, but something like

"Every time you say you dont believe in Snape, a fandom dies."

Whatever choice you decide on... T-shirt printing available here (http://www.saidwhat.co.uk/tshirts/custom.php)

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Yes! That's like the divine icon put together by nimori and violet_quill. "Every time someone doesn't believe in Snape a fangirl drops down dead" was the gist, I think. Fab.