Second Avengers go

[amanuensis1]

Saw Avengers again. My first time through a film in which I'm deeply invested (examples: beloved book-to-movie, anticipated sequel, am I going to see Jeremy Renner's arms as much as I'm hoping, etc.) is often a hands-clasped-beneath-chin, breathless terror-filled trance of "Did they do it right? Did they did they?" Which means the second go-through of such a film (if they did do it right) is a delight 'cos I get to relax and enjoy it. And look for details. This time around, I got to pay attention to the plot.

Like:


-Banner knows to get his un-Hulked, motorcycle-propelled ass to Manhattan and Stark Tower because he sees the results of the gamma-radiation tracker just before the explosion on the helicarrier. But he never has the opportunity to tell the others before he's dumped off it, and Barton can't tell because he says Loki kept him in the dark on that point, so that's why Stark has to guess it from Loki's "it's personal" methods.

-Meanwhile, how does Thor know to get to Manhattan? Well, Thor found Loki on a jet in midair earlier; he must have Loki-tracking abilities, or perhaps scepter-tracking abilities.

-Are all Loki's minions slaved to him with his scepter, or are they mostly just SHIELD's enemies/well-paid mooks? I spent serious chunks of time when I could have been looking at Renner instead (o, blasphemy) checking out all the minions' eyes. Hard to tell because the only ones who got facial closeups were wearing facemasks, but at least one--the one giving Cap a hard time with that rifle--had dark, non-frostglitter eyes, and that one was fighting against SHIELD as if s/he had a pretty deadly grudge. So there's a bit of precedent to assume not all the minons got scepter-slaved.

-How does Fury knows Barton's there in the attack on the helicarrier? Because who else has computer-virus-infecting USB arrows, duh.

-Loki's minions can track the scepter, so is that enough to confirm that Loki planned all along to allow SHIELD forces to find him, attack him, and then take him to the helicarrier? I mean, I'm sure he did, but I like to know what the clincher point is. It could just be how carefully-planned the helicarrier attack goes when Loki never had a moment's communication with his minions from the time of his capture: explode engine three, disable engine one via computer, get to the detention block to free big boss Loki and get him out, and create enough havoc to make sure Banner Hulks out. I wonder if the start of Loki's plan goes all the way back to Solveig's knowledge about the gamma radiation.


And now, a poll:

Poll: The whisper

The thing Natasha whispers to...

[Poll #1839553]

Comments

[eeyore9990.livejournal.com]

"I have a matching muzzle for you."

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

YES. &hearts &hearts &hearts

[eeyore9990.livejournal.com]

I LOVE YOUR ICON!!

I need more icon space at LJ, but... nah. I have a few hundred spots left on IJ and I can totally swap some out, right??

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Had to make it after I saw the secret caption on Hey, Don't Judge Me (http://heydontjudgeme.com/2012/05/07/movie-recap-the-avengers/)--hysterical recap.

(and I thought that pic also screamed for this caption, too)

[eeyore9990.livejournal.com]

I pulled something in my throat from laughing at that. I choose to blame you. To make it better, you can write me some Clint/Natasha(/Coulson). Because yes, that will make my throat feel better.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Then I must! I will do my best for you. (At least one other person is holding this over my head too, so. ^_^


(And, god, do I want decent screencaps to make icons. I'm really gonna have to wait all that time for the DVD, aren't I?)

[daigranon.livejournal.com]

So much icon love.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I made it, but the joke credit definitely goes to Hey, Don't Judge Me. (http://heydontjudgeme.com/2012/05/07/movie-recap-the-avengers/) :D

[daigranon.livejournal.com]

Fire ant toxin all the way.
I'm so jealous! I was supposed to see it for a second time this weekend, but now the people I was supposed to go with are all like, "I don't know if I can, maybe next week..." grr, I am obsessed.

Another thing about Hawkeye that caught my attention (besides his arms): when he is possessed we get a few close-ups of his face, mainly to show those pretty eyes. But his makeup makes him look ill. I know the whole movie only spans a few days, and we know that Hawkeye was conscious every minute of it (or his body was, at least). Did Loki allow them to eat? None of his servants slept, since loss of consciousness would break the mind control, but Hawkeye looked ready to drop by the time he was shooting the aircraft.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Ye gods I SAW that. Focused on him as I was, I noticed the hollows under his eyes and the greyness of his face.

I don't know if we can be sure about the sleep thing (sleep isn't the same as a blow to the head) but that would make for a cool explanation. And it would make a case why Loki couldn't possess everyone, or he'd have servants collapsing of overwork every few days.

[daigranon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they literally made him look almost dead. And if you do that kind of makeup, it's gotta be for a reason. Maybe Loki didn't see the need to let them eat. Or maybe that was the result of Hawkeye trying to fight the control; it made him sick.

It's curious to think about, though. Sleep is a noticeable change in one's state if consciousness, even if it isn't a blow to the head, so you have to wonder what that would be like under mind control. I don't know enough about the comics to write Avengers!fic, but I would love to write about what that actually did to Hawkeye physically.../ goes on a ramble

[winter]

......oh. I know I'm a few days late, but your exchange here just made me have a lightbulb moment.

Who else looked absolutely rotten/unsleeping/stressed whenever there weren't enemy eyes on him, and changed his behaviour after being knocked unconscious and waking up again...

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

...everybody? Heh. No, lemme think...is this a theory about Loki? (Besides Selvig, obviously.)

[winter]

Loki, definitely. I think I can trust Tom Hiddleston not to put this utter strung-out-ness when he's just arrived and then in the Lair of Evil, as well as random unguarded moments later, for no reason at all. There was definitely duress involved (see, Chitauri scenes), and Loki's just the kind of guy to develop a brilliant, twisted and completely crap plan to both make Thanos think he's done his best and get free of them, then have it all go to hell on him.

[midnitemaraud-r.livejournal.com]

Whether or not they could track the scepter wasn't important, I don't think. Clint would have known they'd take Loki to the helicarrier, and clearly Loki being the "distraction' (of the "I need a distraction and an eyeball") it had to be planned, because again, Clint would know Loki would get on SHIELD's radar the moment he appeared in public. It was a good distraction - also supported by Clint's dialogue when he said it to Selvig something about how it would be easier to get that mineral thingy as long as SHIELD didn't know they needed it. SHIELD focused all of their searching on Loki, thus easy pickings for Clint.

Also, Loki tells Natasha that Clint told him all about her, (and since he knew personal details about her past, this is true, not a feint) so presumably Clint told him a lot about SHIELD itself. The plan - Loki's distraction while Clint got what Selvig needed, Selvig and Co. moving to NYC to implement the opening of the portal, and Loki's 'abduction' and setting the Avengers against each other and causing as much chaos and discord as possible - was set before they left. He had to expect Thor to show up as well, since even without the Bifrost functioning, Heimdall would be able to see him once he appeared on Earth. (Also why Thor knew exactly where he was and landed on the jet.) Loki's downfall was because he underestimated them, still stuck on his ant-boot mindset, and felt the Chitauri army could and would win in the end. Actually, if Tony hadn't nuked the mothership, they might have.

I'm still debating what she whispered to him, possibly because I was distracted by his arms. :-P

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Omigod, you thought this out LOTS. clearly Loki being the "distraction' Oh! Loki himself being the distraction, that's the connection I hadn't made. I do believe Barton knew that Loki getting found would be as easy as Loki going out in public, yes, because of the facematch tech. Can we say that Barton might not have been able to find the helicarrier if it was cloaked, though? Hm, maybe that's underestimating his knowledge of the helicarrier; the man does know how to take down its systems through one stinkin' USB drive. I'm still trying to figure out why Loki had to be on the helicarrier itself, but as you say, he was the distraction which let SHIELD misbelieve, "Well, we've got Loki; any attack will come from him, not from outside..."

I may have to stage a daring midnight raid to grab a Hawkeye stand-up from the movie theatre. :D

[midnitemaraud-r.livejournal.com]

Um, I may have seen it three times. And I'm going again tomorrow with musesfool and bethbethbeth. :-P

They flew in on one of those SHIELD helo jet thingies, which they had to get from somewhere, and I'm guessing Clint would know how to find the carrier even if they didn't track the energy emissions from the scepter. So really, both scenarios are plausible. When they approached, they said there were bringing ammunition and supplies, so even those on the carrier didn't expect subterfuge (nor did anyone report a missing jet or missing SHIELD uniforms) which basically means Clint is fucking awesome and resourceful as hell and you don't want him as your enemy.

Part of the plan must have included destroying the helicarrier if possible during the 'rescue' - and they did take down two of the engines which would have crashed it if Tony hadn't gotten the first one re-started - though they were thwarted there when Clint was turned back. (Natasha!!) But if he hadn't been, he would have done a lot more damage.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, yes, this is the stuff that becomes clear to me if I see the film LOTS! Clearly I need to see it three times. At least. This week. :D

"Ammunition and supplies." YES. That says that they at least had all the right clearance codes. And that it's a jet SHIELD expects to see. (I've been trying not to credit Barton with EVERYTHING clever, you see, fearing it's that I just want him to be that awesome, but I find myself writing him that way and everything you point out keeps reaffirming, yes, he IS that fucking awesome.)

[cluegirl.livejournal.com]

Oh, but I covet your icon!

[midnitemaraud-r.livejournal.com]

Have at it! I don't know who made it though :( (The person who I nicked it from had a misspelled username under the credit and I tried to figure out who it was to no avail. And now I can't remember who I got it from.)

[cluegirl.livejournal.com]

I don't think he HAD to be there, I think he WANTED to be there -- and moreover, he wanted that scepter to be there too, because that was how the Tesseract operated in the material world, and it could passively fuck the Avengers and SHIELD over so long as it was in proximity.

[elsajeni.livejournal.com]

Arms nothin', those lips!

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

YOU THINK SO TOO YAY! See, I've been wondering if my sudden decision that that face is GORGEOUS is because he's preternaturally beautiful (http://coilhouse.net/2007/12/top-10-most-preternaturally-beautiful-men/), or if he's just simply beautiful, period. If you say that too then I feel like that tips me over into "simply."

*needs more hawkeye icons and is upset there aren't perfect movie screencaps just lying around for me to use*

[ariadneelda.livejournal.com]

I've seen it twice by now, and I knew twice wouldn't be enough and it's not - your post and the comments make me realise there are so many things I missed even the second time. Dammit. Apparently I need to see this film a million times. :P (Only I can't for the time being, wah!)

However. In my second viewing I was able to decide that Hawkeye IS the sexiest one, after all - I'm with you all the way about that now. :P

But why can't I decide what Natasha whispered to Clint? It shouldn't be that hard. ;)

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

ANOTHER HAWKEYE FAN, YAYYYYYYYYY! Seriously, I know I'm biased, but I watched that film the first time and said, "Omigod, he's ALL OVER this film; he does SO MUCH." Which is probably not that different from all the mains; they all have their moments when they feel like THE focal character. That's why it's amazing. :D

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

She's telling him that when Loki gets home, his momma is doing this to him. (Warning to any passers-by for serious grade body horror.)

Also, in retrospect, I really enjoy how matter-of-fact everybody (and by everybody, I mean Natasha) is about Hawkeye's very serious and real desire to put an arrow through Loki's eye. Like, such a specific thing! From a guy who could actually do it! And has plenty of real motivation! I have no idea whether this is actually the case, but IN MY MIND, when Loki opens his eyes and sees all the Avengers in front of him, Natasha has her hand on Hawkeye's shoulder to remind him that no, he should not shoot the dude through the eye, no really, she's reminding him. NO. HE WILL BE A VERY BAD HAWKEYE IF HE DOES IT AND WILL NOT GET LAID FOR A WEEK IF HE DOES IT.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Gnyahhhhhh, YOU SAW THAT MOMENT TOO. From the moment I saw that camera shot, with everyone posed threatening Loki and Barton at the center with the arrow, I've been gibbering with the need to write teensy metafic about that. The discussion the six of them had to have had before they'd even allow Barton to confront Loki armed. (It's on my list. After the dub-con fic.)

[quigonejinn.livejournal.com]

I want that discussion. I want that discussion. And I also want the crazy, crazy spy sex (or the surprisingly sweet, vanilla missionary style date night) that Natasha trades Hawkeye in return for behaving. I'm eaaaaaaaaaaaaasy, but can also guess which one you're writing. :D

[cluegirl.livejournal.com]

I think she was referencing the tattoo they'd put on Loki's bum while he was in custody. The one that reads "Mewling quim".

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

AH HA HA HA! Perfect!! &hearts &hearts &hearts

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Husband and I had a long talk after the first watch, and he expressed extreme skepticism about why SHIELD would have allowed Barton to have the USB hacking arrow, and I argued that they didn't...that he made it after Loki turned him. I went back and watched the movie by myself a second time (which was glorious), and I really think that Loki's possession power is really impressive--it takes away the free will and creates a slave, but keeps the knowledge/skills/most of the personality of the slave. You can see that Barton is doing much of the planning, and Loki trusts everyone implicitly, as he goes off on the distraction alone and lets his minions take possession of the tessaract. I think that Barton was the perfect person to enslave--he put together the raid on the helicarrier in his own way, and I'm certain he created the hacking arrow and stole the SHIELD jet. It just makes so much sense. Barton wants to strike the helicarrier, and take it down or at least incapacitate it, and of course in his head arrows solve everything, so that's what he used. Had he possessed the Black Widow, it would have gone down in a totally different way.

RE: unpossessed people helping Barton raid the helicarrier--at some point earlier--maybe while talking to Selvig about the iridium--Barton says something about SHIELD having enemies, implying that's the cause for their new recruits, I think, which does totally make sense and would explain unpossessed people helping.

And I love the concept of no rest for the slaves--Dr Selvig looks worse and worse as the movie progresses. I had not noticed Barton's makeup, and will check that out the next time I see the movie.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I can imagine SHIELD having made all sorts of arrowhead tech for Barton, but they probably wouldn't have given him anything that could be used directly on SHIELD. I'm thinking he engineered it beyond its basic uses. Damn, but he must have planned so much of that himself.

Oh, yes, by all means, do watch it again and stare at Barton's face. :D Why should you do anything differently?