One day after:
Better impression of the book now, now that I've moved away from the reading and am on to the processing of what the book told us.
I think the plot is overall satisfying as a conclusion. This doesn't mean that I found the reading itself fabulous, because the exposition was thick and bogged the pace down, and the escapades had a foolish air to them that sapped my sense of real danger --for almost every death, I thought, "No, really? Huh. How about that." But as far as the plot of it goes, here are the major points with which this book deals that do make it a clever conclusion, if not executed as well as I would like.
-Dumbledore and Snape's true natures are revealed at last and their motives are utterly the opposite of what we'd been shown in books 1-5. Dumbledore was a power-seeking manipulator who was just managing to walk the line of "for the greater good," and Snape was emotion-filled, driven by sacrifice, caring about the needs of the one far more than Dumbledore ever had. How about that. Moreover, Harry discovered the truth, and learned whom he should forgive and whom he should love, and that they were also quite the opposite of what he expected.
-Voldemort truly showed himself capable of infiltrating and taking over the Wizarding World to create a totalitarian state. At-freaking-last, Voldemort was someone to be frightened of, someone with power, someone upon whose side it appeared wise to be on if you wanted to survive. And yet those who had the least bit of true wisdom demonstrated that they were acting out of fear, knew how fragile it was to serve this madman (the lesson of the Malfoys being reduced to a family unit who shared one fate).
-Harry, Ron, and Hermione as a trio did the part they had to in the war, the part they had to because it couldn't be done by force but by stealth, and they formed the head/hand/heart unit that Dumbledore knew could perform that role. The trio, formed so early in the books and so much the center of the story, needed to do that for this tale to be complete.
-Hogwarts, though abandoned for the majority of this book, plays such an important role in the books that the final battleground is shown to take place there. Another "end as you begin" factor, a large one.
-Sacrifices were made in the name of war. Hardship of the body, changes from safe familiar settings, and of course deaths. Sad, regretful deaths.
-Harry recognized the need for his own sacrifice, accepted it and submitted to it. That he was spared, however, is not a cheat, but has been set up since the end of GoF, when Dumbledore recognized that Voldemort's blood ritual suddenly meant Harry would likely be saved (even though, it appears, he could not tell this to Harry since it would have been unfair to reassure Harry on an uncertainty--and possibly obstructed Harry's ability to go into sacrifice unconditionally? Because of the nature of ritual and magic? I'm thinking that's also part of it?). I've been waiting for that to be explained and, hooray, it was every bit as big and as satifying as it hinted it was. YAY for that, one thousand times yay. For that alone I kiss JKR deeply.
-Generations move on and people are still much as they were once great evil is gone from the world, though there remains a sense that evil always returns (Nineteen years, and all is well--so far) but that good will be there to rise to it. Especially in the form of that next generation.
But I still don't like Harry using unforgivables.
As I continue to process what actually happened, I find myself moving past the coldness and into, "Wow. Cool ending for Harry and for the story." This makes me happy. I'd have liked to have felt it during the reading, I admit, but I can live with that. Far far better that things should have happened appropriately. Perhaps another reading of the book will improve on that further--I do plan to pop in the audiobook in a few days, when I get home.
(I've kept my "Whither fanfiction?" thoughts out of this post because the book deserves to be analysed without that baggage. But I'll present fanfiction thoughts later. Hell, I'll present fanfiction later. ^_^ )
Better impression of the book now, now that I've moved away from the reading and am on to the processing of what the book told us.
I think the plot is overall satisfying as a conclusion. This doesn't mean that I found the reading itself fabulous, because the exposition was thick and bogged the pace down, and the escapades had a foolish air to them that sapped my sense of real danger --for almost every death, I thought, "No, really? Huh. How about that." But as far as the plot of it goes, here are the major points with which this book deals that do make it a clever conclusion, if not executed as well as I would like.
-Dumbledore and Snape's true natures are revealed at last and their motives are utterly the opposite of what we'd been shown in books 1-5. Dumbledore was a power-seeking manipulator who was just managing to walk the line of "for the greater good," and Snape was emotion-filled, driven by sacrifice, caring about the needs of the one far more than Dumbledore ever had. How about that. Moreover, Harry discovered the truth, and learned whom he should forgive and whom he should love, and that they were also quite the opposite of what he expected.
-Voldemort truly showed himself capable of infiltrating and taking over the Wizarding World to create a totalitarian state. At-freaking-last, Voldemort was someone to be frightened of, someone with power, someone upon whose side it appeared wise to be on if you wanted to survive. And yet those who had the least bit of true wisdom demonstrated that they were acting out of fear, knew how fragile it was to serve this madman (the lesson of the Malfoys being reduced to a family unit who shared one fate).
-Harry, Ron, and Hermione as a trio did the part they had to in the war, the part they had to because it couldn't be done by force but by stealth, and they formed the head/hand/heart unit that Dumbledore knew could perform that role. The trio, formed so early in the books and so much the center of the story, needed to do that for this tale to be complete.
-Hogwarts, though abandoned for the majority of this book, plays such an important role in the books that the final battleground is shown to take place there. Another "end as you begin" factor, a large one.
-Sacrifices were made in the name of war. Hardship of the body, changes from safe familiar settings, and of course deaths. Sad, regretful deaths.
-Harry recognized the need for his own sacrifice, accepted it and submitted to it. That he was spared, however, is not a cheat, but has been set up since the end of GoF, when Dumbledore recognized that Voldemort's blood ritual suddenly meant Harry would likely be saved (even though, it appears, he could not tell this to Harry since it would have been unfair to reassure Harry on an uncertainty--and possibly obstructed Harry's ability to go into sacrifice unconditionally? Because of the nature of ritual and magic? I'm thinking that's also part of it?). I've been waiting for that to be explained and, hooray, it was every bit as big and as satifying as it hinted it was. YAY for that, one thousand times yay. For that alone I kiss JKR deeply.
-Generations move on and people are still much as they were once great evil is gone from the world, though there remains a sense that evil always returns (Nineteen years, and all is well--so far) but that good will be there to rise to it. Especially in the form of that next generation.
But I still don't like Harry using unforgivables.
As I continue to process what actually happened, I find myself moving past the coldness and into, "Wow. Cool ending for Harry and for the story." This makes me happy. I'd have liked to have felt it during the reading, I admit, but I can live with that. Far far better that things should have happened appropriately. Perhaps another reading of the book will improve on that further--I do plan to pop in the audiobook in a few days, when I get home.
(I've kept my "Whither fanfiction?" thoughts out of this post because the book deserves to be analysed without that baggage. But I'll present fanfiction thoughts later. Hell, I'll present fanfiction later. ^_^ )
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Date: 2007-07-22 07:13 am (UTC)This interested me in that all of a sudden they weren't that bad.
Ok I'd never thought Imperio *was* any worse than many other wizarding spells, especially has Harry used it, so that kinda made sense that that could be a good or evil depenidng on it's use" point.
But Crucio? That's a torture spell. I don't get that. NOt only do I not get it's rampent use I don't get the desciption, because it became more and more like any other stunning spell in how it seemed to effect people . . except Hermione maybe, if that's what Bella was using.
The effects of that spell shoudl be so blatently awful that Harry, if he successfully used it ever, should feel so bad about it's effects that he'd never use it again.
But not aonly is that not the case . . no one seemed to care.
I'm not sure where JKR was going with that.
Dumbledore was a power-seeking manipulator who was just managing to walk the line of "for the greater good,"
I feel so vindicated ^__^
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Date: 2007-07-22 07:29 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-07-22 07:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-22 07:29 am (UTC)Now I'm all teary.
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2007-08-04 02:07 am (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
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Date: 2007-07-22 07:24 am (UTC)Then he uses Crucio on a Carrow and McGonagall calls him gallant.
But in the end, he never had to cast the Killing Curse, and I think that is the biggest lesson, that Expelliarmus is all you should need. Disarm. *starts to hear John Lennon*
Hm. I have meta bubbling up inside of me, and this and posts like it keep making my points. Heh. Guess I should hurry up, see if I can be counted.
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Date: 2007-07-22 04:13 pm (UTC)I hoped that he had to use Crucio in Bella, for everything that she had done for Sirius and Herminone.
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Date: 2007-07-22 07:35 am (UTC)Yeah, that was excellent. It was somewhat muted for me, though, because so many fandom readers had already figured it out; so it was one of those situations where I felt I knew more than the protagonist... and so had trouble relating to the protagonist... and it kinda went downhill from there.
Maybe I'll grow to like this book more on second reading. Right now I'm feeling kinda cranky about it.
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Date: 2007-07-22 04:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-07-22 08:00 am (UTC)I know that for me actually opening the book, reading the words, felt almost distancing - how could I be reading this? How could it be the last part?
I had to stop several times to allow myself to realise that this was IT - and it was hard for me to truly immerse myself in the story because the process of actually reading the story almost overwhelmed the story itself.
Anyway, it's just a thought. I know that as much as I enjoyed the read as a whole - and I did enjoy it - even now I'm still only slowly coming to grips with the story, and all the implications of canon concluding.
Mostly I'm incredibly satisfied, and relieved, with how JK treated this last piece of our world, and the people in it. That's not without some qualms, but she has opened up so many avenues of possibility now - that whilst the canon is quietly drawn to a close, my experience of the HP world suddenly has whole new vistas lying ahead of it (both with and without the epilogue - my preference being without).
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Date: 2007-07-22 11:50 pm (UTC)I was really satisfied with the book. Almost everything is explained - but there are still some loose ends which can be sorted out in fanfiction, and there's enough ambiguity for fic writers to explore!
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Date: 2007-07-22 08:06 am (UTC)In other words, the way JKR's been TELLING us it was like during the First War. If it wasn't for the other, you know, four hundred pages of crap I would think that she had finally learned the SHOW NOT TELL rule.
and they formed the head/hand/heart unit that Dumbledore knew could perform that role.
I thought having them all choose different Hallows was a very good example of this. While I was :( abou the books, there was stuff I realllly liked and that scene was one of them.
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Date: 2007-07-26 08:39 pm (UTC)*laughs and laughs* Yes. Exactly. Thank you.
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Date: 2007-07-22 11:17 am (UTC)Whereas Dumbledore (whatever his speeches about loving Harry too much) is far more controlled and calculating; all twinkly smiles and lemon drops and never telling anyone anything useful.
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Date: 2007-07-26 08:41 pm (UTC)And that part took me in, some--I was willing to believe we were supposed to accept Dumbledore as wise and good, and that his "Sit down, Harry, I am going to tell you everything" really was everything. Silly me, huh? ^_^
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Date: 2007-07-22 11:18 am (UTC)I kind of agree with what you're saying about DD and Snape, except for one thing. Manipulative, yes but I don't think he's that power hungry. He avoided power for the rest of his life and the ring moment is quite emo actually -- he was trying to bring his family back together, to undo the damage. But I do think Snape is the more courageous man by far -- he actually went to DD and admitted his crime. DD was still trying to fudge the issue with Ariana.
I can take Lily/Snape the way JKR has written it. Snape didn't just 'desire' Lily like James did (ie get in her bed); Lily was Severus's soul mate. She was the only one he ever felt a deep connection to, his only link to the rest of the world -- Lily's rejection of his apologies just broke my heart. I could see why he would still hold on to it after so many years.
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Date: 2007-07-26 08:42 pm (UTC)I can too--a lot of people are unhappy with this take, I guess, but it makes sense; it isn't out of WTF left field, so it works for me.
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Date: 2007-07-22 01:21 pm (UTC)I didn't mind him using the Imperius Curse that much, since they were in a really tight spot at the time and they needed to get into that vault.
However, Harry using a Cruciatus because some DE spits McGonagall in the face? Dude. Seriously. That is some fucked up shit. The only way I could have seen Harry use a Cruciatus in DH was if Bellatrix or some other evil DE killed Hermione/Ron/Ginny right in front of him, and Harry then, in a fit of blinding rage, casts the curse and manages it this time (as opposed to his failure in OotP). But because someone spits a woman in the face? Just...no. I hate to say it, but that makes him no better than Voldie or any DE who uses that curse on a whim.
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Date: 2007-07-22 03:58 pm (UTC)It was just very OOC. Not to mention that Mcgonagal didn't even mention it. At all. Just a quick "Yay Harry, you're so super." and that was the end of it. psh.
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Date: 2007-07-22 04:12 pm (UTC)I loved having confirmation for Manipulative!Dumbledore and Goodguy!Snape. I think for most it was less of a surprise and more of a "Ah ha! I knew it!" moment.
I actuall didn't mind the Lily/Snape stuff it explained a lot about Snape's character and it was actually kind of cute... sort of, I had actually never imagined that would end up canon, but i'm a slasher and I try to push the possibility of het from my mind at all times. *g*
Harry/Ginny? Meh. I don't feel it at all. Didn't in book six. Don't now.
Ron/Hermione? Yeah okay. I already know they're gonna be together 4EVAR! So I didn't really give a finicky aunt's arse about their relationship in this book at all.
Epilogue? Unecessary. Plain and simple. I did however like the introduction of several new hogwarts aged students to be shipped and slashed. Teddy/James anyone?
Overall I had fun reading it. I'd read it again. That's all that really matters to me.
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Date: 2007-07-23 01:32 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-07-22 05:27 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2007-07-22 05:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-26 08:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-22 06:25 pm (UTC)As for Harry and the Unforgivables, I think JKR was purposely building up to something, there. Through out Deathly Hallows, Harry is making one sacrifice after another, and not just people, either – going back to Hogwarts, moving on without Ron, not telling anyone but Ron and Hermy what he was up to, just all sorts of things that challenge his usual loyalty and "goodness". Using Imperius and Crucio was evidence that his good nature was being put to the breaking point, but when it all came down to the final face off between him and Voldemort, he didn't use the killing curse. He didn't. That was absolutely amazing.
In the very least, the curses he used when he used them were not for his own entertainment, as Death Eaters used them in the past. He didn't use them because he wanted to, but because he couldn't do anything else at the time. It was troubling to see him use the Imperius, but it would have been more troubling if he had decided not to at Gringotts, and Hermione or Ron had been caught, killed, and had simply become another martyr.
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Date: 2007-07-22 09:36 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-07-22 09:06 pm (UTC)On July 19th, I had one of the best dreams ever.
I was sitting outside a supermarket or something, and I was reading HBP. The cover was the DH one, but it definitely said "Half-Blood Prince."
Except it wasn't actually HBP. It was one of your fics in published book form. Wasn't one of, you know, your actual fics. It was actually some horribly mushy Cedric/Harry thing where Harry was in fifth or sixth year, and Cedric was not only alive, but still in school. I remember, because I was confused about the inconsistency, but I shrugged it off and continued reading, and despite the fact that it had no kinks or anything (which was just weird), I still loved it because you wrote it.
And then some old ladies came up and pointed and talked with me about how great HBP was, and I smiled and nodded. But at the same time, I was this close to yelling, "Shut the fuck up and let me get back to my porn."
I think I'll read the review later. I still want some thinking time to myself. But I had to tell you that before I forgot.
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Date: 2007-07-26 08:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-22 09:08 pm (UTC)In trying to crystallize how DH went outside my expectations, I keep thinking back to how OotP disappointed me and HBP was so very satisfying. DH witnessed a removal from normality (as with the structure of Hogwarts, like you said) to absolute "Wartime," unavoidable danger and scary uncertainty. I think the best way to describe DH is as an episodic amalgam that serves the specific purpose of tying up loose ends, rather than telling the story. Which would encompass the 'foolish escapades' summation...
I was surprised by 'Ron betrays 2.0', and the ease with which the horcruxes were destroyed. It almost feels like the Dumbledore backstory was slapped on just to explain his withered hand, which not only made him look ridiculous (you put on the ring WTF?), but also ruined a perfect way to enhance the danger/fear association with the horcruxes. On the other hand - Grindelwald was cool, and the subtle reality that Dumbledore didn't actually kill him was even cooler.
Our only meaty glimpses of the Snape character in DH were through his memories, and (perhaps just because the memories were isolated, specific and direct) seemed an odd deviation from the prickly figure we've become accustomed to. I don't think we saw enough of Lily to care about her as the reason for Snape's eternal penitence, even if it was presaged in OotP; I wasn't expecting and was somewhat disappointed by the apparent lack of a strong relationship between Albus and Snape, which I would've really enjoyed even if it did take a back seat to the Snape/Lily plot...thinger. On top of that, Snape's sudden, anticlimactic death seemed a strange reward for one of the most complex, hardworking characters in the books. I personally expected something more along the lines of a strongly established triumvirate fed on hate, deception and evil between Harry, Snape and Voldemort, rather than the sudden insertion of the deathly hallows, but whatev. Fanfic has ruined me.
The battle scenes were pretty cool, once you got past the crackpot methods used to get the characters there. LOVED the fight between Remus and Harry, L-O-V-E-D it. That hurt me more than Remus' Peek-a-boo death did, to be honest. ahhh Remus isn't dead NOOO ahhh...
Also, how cool was it that Molly was the one to kill Bellatrix? Narcissa as the epitome of Slytherin battle strategy: also FTW. Nevile as the true Gryffindor, pulling the sword out of the hat and symbolically vanquishing the snake (and another LOL for the moment Griphook realizes he's lost the sword again!) was very cool, though it might have been cooler if we'd seen a little more development from the D.A.
WHY DIDN'T UMBRIDGE BITE IT?
Oh...I could go on and on. This has probably gone on long enough for now, though.
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Date: 2007-07-26 08:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-22 09:54 pm (UTC)My point is that Dumbledore would sacrifice anyone or anything to further along his plans, even himself. That was strange, though. Harry might have thought Dumbledore was a kindly old man, but Dumbledore was as Machiavellian as they come. He probably thought it was a gift from the Gods that Snape had the guilt about Lily's death hanging over his head, and every time he saw Harry, he saw Lily's accusing eyes looking back at him. Who would have pegged Dumbledore for a Team Angst Snarry Shipper? Did Dumbledore love either Harry or Snape in even the tiniest measure? Why? They were tools, nothing more. I wonder how many parents are not going to like that "Kindly" Dumbledore was merely a facade? Some men have the ambition to sit on the throne, others prefer to stand behind it.
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Date: 2007-07-26 09:01 pm (UTC)I do love your meta. Who would have pegged Dumbledore for a Team Angst Snarry Shipper? And I love your FUNNY!
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Date: 2007-07-22 09:56 pm (UTC)Exactly. And this is why, in the Epilogue, we should have seen Harry having named his son Severus Albus, not the other way 'round. In addition to being more euphonius, it's the logical sequence.
;___;
Date: 2007-07-23 07:15 pm (UTC)Re: ;___;
From:Re: ;___;
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2007-08-15 01:00 am (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
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Date: 2007-07-23 01:48 am (UTC)I have to admit that it was a little distracting.
Anyway, I also missed Hogwarts, but I think the battle made up for it. Except for the bit about the Slythering not joining the battle. Not even one. That pained me a little, because of all the house-ism going on in bad-fanfic and I didn´t want to see it in canon.
Aaand I was wrong about Rowlings. Yay for Snape. She actually knew what she was doing. Kind of. (I still think the whole Percy subplot was heavy-handed, but anyway).One day I write about how uber-awesome Snape was at this spy thing. And about how canon Snape/Lucius is
The guy patted him in the back, so there. You can almost feel the lust.But, in the middle of the book, I wasn´t thinking about Snape. I wasn´t thinking about Dumbledore. I wasn´t even thinking about the upcoming war. The only thing I was thinking was, I can take anything, but leave Kreacher alive. He´s totally the best thing about DH. And Regulus. Much love for Regulus. House-elfs revolution GO.
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Date: 2007-07-23 05:09 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-07-26 09:06 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2007-07-23 10:19 am (UTC)*cough* Hogwarts ruled by Death Eaters *cough*
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Date: 2007-07-24 01:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-07-23 10:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-26 09:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-23 06:34 pm (UTC)*heaves a huge sigh of relief*
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Date: 2007-07-26 09:09 pm (UTC)