amanuensis1: (Default)
[personal profile] amanuensis1
I liked it better the second time around.

This time I went in without the first-time stress jitters, and this time I got to appreciate what a clever complex plot this was. Everything flows and goes just a teensy bit faster than what you anticipate, so that it's never talking down to you. I will always choose a "Keep up" plot over one where I can guess what's coming. *cough cough* nearly every other action movie on the planet *cough cough* I think it's as intricate as the story of The Avengers, but it's less joyful, darker. Ultron may be entertainingly bitchy but he's much more evil a villain than Loki the trickster. Different darker agenda. There couldn't be any funny end scene of the Avengers exhaustedly chomping down on shawarma in this one.

I still don't buy that Natasha has deeper feelings for Bruce than for any other guy on the team, but if I could get past that I wouldn't have too many quibbles with the way their not-romance was shown. I absolutely won't argue with anyone who thinks that giving her a romance this time around reduces her to a romantic object and takes away from her role; I won't deny that that's a fair way of looking at that. I'll just say that I thought it was respectfully done, and Natasha trying to carve out a happy space in her life is not something I'll condemn. And if it saved Whedon from having to write more Widow/Hawkeye to the tune of stagnation (what I think he'd believe--not me), then okay. Whatever keeps him from killing off either half of a couple. Even her line to Nick, "Did you know this was going to happen?" and Nick's failure to reply "...that I was setting you guys up to date, are you seriously asking me if that was even in my head at that moment?!" I can rationalize by thinking, if anyone would be sent to tame the Beast, it would be Beauty, so, Natasha's question and the idea that Nick would have thought that too doesn't seem completely out of left field.

In fact on the second watching I saw the Clintasha hints even more. If Clint is injured/imperiled, Natasha is right there. If Natasha is injured/imperiled, Clint is right there. This time, I realized that Clint takes the jet to his home for Natasha's sake first--knowing that Natasha being with his kids and his family will heal her after her encounter with Wanda's head games. The others are just lucky to be on the same jet, because I don't think he'd have put his family in potential jeopardy for anyone but Nat. Laura teases Clint about not noticing Nat's connection to Bruce (which to be honest I don't buy; I don't believe Natasha had time to show that connection to Laura during that time), which hadn't gone unnoticed by others (Steve at least), which suggests to me that Natasha consciously wouldn't let herself show it in front of Clint.

(Notice how in the first movie it was two "Tasha"s to one "Nat." You can retcon all ya want, Joss, I'll still remember!)

On the second watching I also caught how Hawkeye was set up red-herring style; yes, every fan thinks that if any Avenger is expendable it's gotta be Hawkeye. (I've been making "shut up shut UP" hands for three years.) And Hawkeye meets just about every narrative mark for death in this movie, what with his line in the sick bay: "Nah, I'm gonna live forever," and a family with two kids and a freakin' pregnant wife that already has a name for the unborn baby--he even tucks a picture of his family into his shirt before he goes into combat and has the line, "I'm going back out there, because it's my job," and turns back to save an overlooked child. As the S.O. put it, "if this had been a Michael Bay film he'd've been offed in the first reel." And because Joss loves to flout this kind of cliché instead he saves Hawkeye by (in another classic Joss move) offing one of a set of twins ha ha your tears are delicious. Ouch.

Once again, Hawkeye is the first Avenger you meet in this movie. He only beats out the others by seconds this time, but he's the first. *hearts*

Note to self: IMAX is great but you miss some lines because things are so very very loud in an IMAX theatre. For the second showing, do go 3D, but skip the IMAX. This time I around I got to hear the "Will you let me hold my own?" "If you do this I'LL hold your own." "Oh, you had to make it weird, didn't you?" plus Hawkeye's mutterings about how no one would know if he took out Pietro. And a few other things.

I'm thinking the reason Tony left at the end was daddy issues. He was father to Ultron who went as bad as could be, and now the child he would have liked to create in the first place is here and is so far beyond him, not needing him at all, nobler than him, and Tony can't even look at that confrontation yet. The Vision doesn't need him and that hurts.

Anyone out there read Janet Kagan's book Hellspark, where one of the tests of sentience is art? Anyone doubt The Vision's sentience, just check out his, "You know, I think I'd like a cape too" moment.

HOW DID I FORGET TO MENTION THE END CREDITS. Oh, do I ever need a revolving screensaver of that gorgeous Grecian tableau statue. Perfectly rendered Renner mouth, mmmmmm.

Date: 2015-05-03 09:59 pm (UTC)
princessofgeeks: (jackjob by kaz)
From: [personal profile] princessofgeeks
My relief that they didn't kill Clint knows no bounds. Altho I was pissed that they felt they had to kill Quicksilver because REAL PERIL.

I mean, I really liked them all, and it's a COMIX SUPERHERO MOVIE. You don't really have to kill off anyone? KAYTHANX????

I have no problem with Natasha, or any of the team, having a romance! I get so impatient with fans who believe that giving a female character a romance weakens her somehow. Yikes. I don't buy that and I don't want that interpretation.

Yes, in the old days, female characters were in the canon simply to be a love interest. In some canons, we are past that. Full stop.

Anyway. I am going to see it again, but I still don't know what I think of it. There was just so much of it and it went by so fast.

Date: 2015-05-03 10:13 pm (UTC)
bethbethbeth: (Avengers Hawk Widow (bleeding_muse))
From: [personal profile] bethbethbeth
Because, hello...Bruce had a romance (obviously *g*) and nobody said anything about that weakening him.

Date: 2015-05-04 12:51 am (UTC)
bethbethbeth: (Avengers Hawk Widow (bleeding_muse))
From: [personal profile] bethbethbeth
Did you see the Black Widow "movie" from ScarJo's last appearance on SNL?

Date: 2015-05-04 12:53 am (UTC)
bethbethbeth: (Avengers Thor Tony Cap (equanimousicons))
From: [personal profile] bethbethbeth
Yep. And to the folks who say "well, it's not realistic for none of them to die in that fight" my reply would be "if we're talking about realism, then a minimum of 50% of the Sokovian population would have died before the Avengers could have solved the Ultron problem."

Date: 2015-05-04 01:53 pm (UTC)
jenna_thorn: black widow on a wire descent rig, shooting at the viewer (widow)
From: [personal profile] jenna_thorn
While I'm with you that killing off a character is a cheap shot to the heart, and one that Whedon notoriously relies on (still not over Tara, no, why do you ask?) ...

I'm just so fucking relieved that the brother got fridged to give his sister the dramatic kill shot, instead of the other way around, I can't even express it in words.

That sounds heartless, but until we get the variant of Taken (1, 2, and 3) where Liam Neeson's role is played by Sean Bean, in which the tough guy gets killed in the first twenty seconds of the movie to be avenged over the course of two hours and a three digit body count by his wife, played by Gina Torres, and daughter, played by Quvenzhané Wallis, call me heartless.

Signed, the woman who cheered at that moment in Hobbit: Five armies, when the woman with the studded hat stood up and said, fuck this women and children nonsense, gimme that sword.

I saw the Clintasha hints even more

Date: 2015-05-04 02:02 pm (UTC)
jenna_thorn: black widow on a wire descent rig, shooting at the viewer (widow)
From: [personal profile] jenna_thorn
I was actually thinking of you and our conversation forever ago, about how Clint & Natasha's relationship is more important to either of them than marriage. How the & is more to them than a /.

Because yes, Clint is married and has a family and the bucolic farm life, but that's not Natasha's version of Happy Ever After, (my own quibble is that in the comics, Clint doesn't get his happy ever after, that's part of Clint's characterization, that he bounces from ex-girlfriend to ex-wife looking for it, but he doesn't get it, except in Ultimates where he does, only to have it be taken away, but whatever... I'm retconning and reconciling myself to new canon, so I'm not entirely coherent yet (if ever)) and she's sure as hell not looking for it with Clint (or Bucky -in the comics, or Bruce, apparently, in MCU). She doesn't, didn't, won't want the picket fence.

That doesn't weaken their relationship at all. It reinforces the Modesty Blaise connection we've already discussed.

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